[Makoman]

I'm pretty new to the world of HK. I purchased a P2000 V3 late last year and just put a USPc V1 on layaway. I've been reading about and trying to learn everything I can about these pistols, and others in the HK lineup. What I'm trying to find out is if there are any differences between the two insofar as manufacturing is concerned.

Specifically, I know the USP is built with a fibreglass reinforced frame and has Dow Corning Molykote treated internals for increased corrosion resistance. Are these something that HK has carried over to the P 2000 and other pistols in their lineup?

 

[Makoman]

Anyone?

 

[adkhk]

220, 221 - whatever it takes.....

I am not sure, but looking up Dow Corning Molykote, it sounds like that is just a lubricant. I know they typically refer to the P2000 as a polymer frame. I have never heard of any fiberglass being used.

 

[Makoman]

From what I've read, the USP uses a glass fiber reinforced polymer frame. I take that to be just another way of saying fibreglass.

 

[Jakemd98]

I would imagine they use the same process for the p2000. The p2k was originally contracted to the border patrol and is still being used by them now if that tells you anything.

 

[adkhk]

The below is a quote from the P2000 user manual posted on the HK site. It states that the P2000 uses the same material as the Mark 23. On the Mark 23 web page it states that it uses a "Corrosion proof fiber-reinforced polymer frame". So it would appear that all the HKs leverage the same polymer formulation process.


"The polymer frame of the P Series pistol was designed using technical experience gained
by HK engineers in the development of the world's first composite material pistols, the HK
VP70Z and P9S (polymer outer frame/steel internal frame), and more recently, in the USP
and USP Compact. These same high-strength/corrosion-free materials are used in the Mark
23/MK 23 handgun made by HK for the U.S. Special Operations Command."

 

[Condition0]

The frame is steel reinforced polymer. Fiberglass is not mentioned as a component.

 

[adkhk]

@dano1200, I agree. I am not sure how the OP connected "fiber reinforced" as being "fiberglass".

 

[Makoman]

The below is a quote from the P2000 user manual posted on the HK site. It states that the P2000 uses the same material as the Mark 23. On the Mark 23 web page it states that it uses a "Corrosion proof fiber-reinforced polymer frame". So it would appear that all the HKs leverage the same polymer formulation process.


"The polymer frame of the P Series pistol was designed using technical experience gained
by HK engineers in the development of the world's first composite material pistols, the HK
VP70Z and P9S (polymer outer frame/steel internal frame), and more recently, in the USP
and USP Compact. These same high-strength/corrosion-free materials are used in the Mark
23/MK 23 handgun made by HK for the U.S. Special Operations Command."

Thanks for that info

 

[axel]

Op - there is absolutely NO difference in workmanship or materials between the P2000 series(including the sk model), and the USP series of pistols. Prior to January of 2015 the P2000 series and the USP series were basically the same price, usually in the 900.00 - 1,000.00 range, but HK lowered the price of the P2000 series for some reason(and not their other models) which to this day I don't understand.

 

[Makoman]

@dano1200, I agree. I am not sure how the OP connected "fiber reinforced" as being "fiberglass".

Page 6 of the USP armorers manual, last paragraph states "reinforced with microscopic glass fibers..."

It's the tech geek in me. I just like to know "the details," if you will.

http://stevespages.com/pdf/hk_usp_field_stripping_&_armorers_maintenence_manual.pdf

 

[Makoman]

Op - there is absolutely NO difference in workmanship or materials between the P2000 series(including the sk model), and the USP series of pistols. Prior to January of 2015 the P2000 series and the USP series were basically the same price, usually in the 900.00 - 1,000.00 range, but HK lowered the price of the P2000 series for some reason(and not their other models) which to this day I don't understand.

I have no doubt they are made to the same standards. I've learned a lot the last few days and have become an even bigger fan of these pistols. Like you, I don't know why HK sunddenly dropped the price on the P2000. I remember a time when the P2000 was actually selling for a little more than the USP. I bought my P2000 late last year for $750. If I had shopped around a little more, I could have purchased it from another LGS for $700. I'm wondering if there was some kind of LE contract overrun, or cancellation, and that prompted HK to dump them on the civilian market for what the contract price was, allowing FFL's to sell them at a discount. I guess we may never know, though I sure won't complain about it.

 

[axel]

I have no doubt they are made to the same standards. I've learned a lot the last few days and have become an even bigger fan of these pistols. Like you, I don't know why HK sunddenly dropped the price on the P2000. I remember a time when the P2000 was actually selling for a little more than the USP. I bought my P2000 late last year for $750. If I had shopped around a little more, I could have purchased it from another LGS for $700. I'm wondering if there was some kind of LE contract overrun, or cancellation, and that prompted HK to dump them on the civilian market for what the contract price was, allowing FFL's to sell them at a discount. I guess we may never know, though I sure won't complain about it.

You made out a bit better than myself. I paid 899.99 for my P2000sk in December, 2014 just before HKs' price drop, and that was the best price in my town at the time. The 300.00 trade-in I received from my S&W 9c did soften the blow a tad however.

 

[Condition0]

Page 6 of the USP armorers manual, last paragraph states "reinforced with microscopic glass fibers..."

It's the tech geek in me. I just like to know "the details," if you will.

http://stevespages.com/pdf/hk_usp_field_stripping_&_armorers_maintenence_manual.pdf

Not to play semantics, but Fiberglass is not microscopic glass fibers. Additionally, it is the polymer which is infused with the silica(glass), and has nothing to do with the steel reinforcing frame incorporated in the mold.

 

[macsak]

220, 221 - whatever it takes.....

props for that quote...

 

[Phuam]

Not to play semantics, but Fiberglass is not microscopic glass fibers. Additionally, it is the polymer which is infused with the silica(glass), and has nothing to do with the steel reinforcing frame incorporated in the mold.

Fiberglass can absolutely be reinforced with powdered glass. There's no one type of fiberglass; the glass can be weaved, fabric, strands, threads, dust, just like the different types of CFRP. Perhaps you're thinking about the hand-laid type, where, if you chopped it open, there would be strands of material sticking out.


The Molykote that the OP mentioned... I was always under the impression that it was a dry lube of some sort. How did they incorporate into a permanent coating for the internals?

 

[Makoman]

Not to play semantics, but Fiberglass is not microscopic glass fibers. Additionally, it is the polymer which is infused with the silica(glass)

From what I've been reading, fiberglass is made from glass fibers. The fibers don't have to be microscopic, though they can be. It would seem to depend on the application.

and has nothing to do with the steel reinforcing frame incorporated in the mold.

Im not sure what you're trying to say here as I never mentioned anything about the steel reinforcements used inside the frame. I'm asking about the composition of the frame itself. Are you referring to something specific within the armorers manual?

 

[Makoman]

The Molykote that the OP mentioned... I was always under the impression that it was a dry lube of some sort. How did they incorporate into a permanent coating for the internals?

I've wondered myself. I'm wondering if it's actually a type of metal treatment similar to Tenifer or Melonite, where the chemical (or whatever it is) is actually somehow infused or permanently bonded into/onto the metal. The more you read about HK's and how they make their guns, the more you understand why they cost what they do. The level of engineering that they put into making firearms really is above and beyond what most other manufactures do.

 

[Phuam]

I've wondered myself. I'm wondering if it's actually a type of metal treatment similar to Tenifer or Melonite, where the chemical (or whatever it is) is actually somehow infused or permanently bonded into/onto the metal. The more you read about HK's and how they make their guns, the more you understand why they cost what they do. The level of engineering that they put into making firearms really is above and beyond what most other manufactures do.

I know I'm going to catch a ton of crap for this, since this is an HK forum. But HK, along with another Swiss manufacturer are amongst the companies that only coat their internals, instead of treating them or using stainless. If you polish the internals, they will start rusting a little. When I was doing my internal work, the old parts that were lapped in through live/dry fire and exposed had a bit of oxidation. So you have to paint a thin film of grease or just rust it on purpose and blue it via boiling and take advantage of the magnetite conversion (but even that wears off through more firing). Don't get me wrong, HK definitely has the engineering know-how. I think USPs are a bargain when bought used in the $600 range. But, the newer models at full tag... Meh.

 

[DASchell]

As a materials engineer who manages a machining function for a medical device contractor I will state with reasonable certainty that the frame being fiber reinforced means that they do use glass(fiber) strands as are most reinforced polymer products. The internal steel components (as is the complete slide/barrel assembly) are "Nitrided" which is a chemical vapor deposition process which increase hardness and corrosion resistance.