HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 30 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
The HK booth at the NRA convention stood out in two ways from all the other booths at the NRA convention.
(1) The scopes on the MR762's were mounted with the reticules rolled about 20 degrees off of horizontal.
(2) All the rifles had "don't steal me cords" connecting them to the wall of the display.


While it was a bit disconcerting to see the scopes not mounted properly, sort of the functional equivalent of Angela Merkel with a wardrobe malfunction, what jumped out at me next was how heavy the MR762 felt with a scope mounted on it. I remember the good ole days when rifles didn't have multiple rails to hang fuzzy dice off of. It certainly would be nice if they made a light weight version of the MR762 with polymer handguards and iron sites; I know my wife would appreciate it.
 

·
H&K Certified Armorer
Joined
·
8,216 Posts
The optics were mounted at the last minute just before the guns were shipped out to the show. We didn't notice to until well into opening day that the optic on the far MR762 was slightly canted however we did not have a chance to re-adjust it as the booth was slammed for almost the entire show. It bugged me a little bit too as you all know how much of a stickler I am for details. But ultimately, we were there to showcase the firearm, not the optic. I am sorry if that left you with discontent. I will make sure that your feedback gets back to HK so that this can be avoided at future shows.

As for the weight of the MR762, it is a direct decendent of the HK417. The weight of the HK417 is a result of the numerous features that were required to meet the many demands of its large and varying military audience. The MR762 is the same firearm with only the necessary operational features dropped for civillian ownership. As such, it can be acceredited with the same durablity and duty-rating for the HK417... somewhere around 20,000-30,000 rounds without the need to service any major operational parts. You would have to neuter MR762 to make it lighter.

You should have asked while you were there, one of us would have gladly give you a detailed tour of the firearm to help you better understand the weight.

As for the tethers... c'mon now, really?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
As for the weight of the MR762, it is a direct decendent of the HK417. The weight of the HK417 is a result of the numerous features that were required to meet the many demands of its large and varying military audience. The MR762 is the same firearm with only the necessary operational features dropped for civillian ownership. As such, it can be acceredited with the same durablity and duty-rating for the HK417... somewhere around 20,000-30,000 rounds without the need to service any major operational parts. You would have to neuter MR762 to make it lighter.
Does the HK417 sport the same semi-heavy barrel under the hand-guard like the MR308/MR762 does?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/Jippo01/Guns/IMG_1490.jpg
 

·
H&K Certified Armorer
Joined
·
8,216 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,807 Posts
The HK booth at the NRA convention stood out in two ways from all the other booths at the NRA convention.
(1) The scopes on the MR762's were mounted with the reticules rolled about 20 degrees off of horizontal.
(2) All the rifles had "don't steal me cords" connecting them to the wall of the display.
While it was a bit disconcerting to see the scopes not mounted properly, sort of the functional equivalent of Angela Merkel with a wardrobe malfunction, what jumped out at me next was how heavy the MR762 felt with a scope mounted on it. I remember the good ole days when rifles didn't have multiple rails to hang fuzzy dice off of. It certainly would be nice if they made a light weight version of the MR762 with polymer handguards and iron sites; I know my wife would appreciate it.

You make some valid observations tktm. There is no excuse for accessories not be properly mounted for public display. Often those folks who set up these booths and the display items are not properly technically trained or equipped, or supervised in this case. The cords are almost mandatory now as there have been so many thefts of items at these shows. Some folks out there have and will steal anything not nailed down to include the firearms themselves and come for that reason. The guns come off the wall, get handed back into the rows and mob and can come back with pieces missing. There are never enough friendly eyes to keep track of everything at once. Most vendors have lost sights and other items his way, to include HK. One guy even posted a photo of an ACOG he stole from HK on line he was so proud of his "accuisition"). As for the weight of the MR762 it is heavy especially outfitted as a Match Rifle with optics and accessories. There are vaious aftermarket rails available through Geissle, Remington and others that eliminate the permanently attached/mill in 9, 3 and 6 o'clock rails to reduce front end weight and bulk. If HK were smart they would offer a "recce" vesion of the MR762 with lightweight profile barrel and a lighter slimline rail system where short add on rails can be added when and where needed. These old style 4-quad rail systems are outdated for all the right reasons. During the 2004 SHOT Show where the first semi-only Commercial HKM4C's (later called HK416's) were shown HK had some outfitted with light polymer and attractive handguards as you mentioned designed and made at HK GmbH. This would have been a smart option for the MR762 for those who wanted a lighter weight rifle without the need for the fussy dice attachment points you mentioned.

G3Kurz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
You make some valid observations tktm. There is no excuse for accessories not be properly mounted for public display. Often those folks who set up these booths and the display items are not properly technically trained or equipped, or supervised in this case.
It did bring to mind the whole German vs American made issue; I have a hard time conceiving that the scope would have been mounted incorrectly if the NRA convention had been held in Oberndorf am Neckar. It is a very big faux pas when the first customer experience a person has with your flagship rifle is a strong visual indication that something is not right; the very first thing people do is pick up the rifle and look down the sights. Of course mistakes do happen, but it is something else when that mistake carries over for the entire 3 days of the convention; the scope was crooked on Friday and it was still crooked at closing time on Sunday.

The cords are almost mandatory now as there have been so many thefts of items at these shows. Some folks out there have and will steal anything not nailed down to include the firearms themselves and come for that reason.
I did not see ANY other booth at the Convention where the long guns where tethered. But it comes down to an economics question, the opportunity costs of lost sales/good impressions vs the cost of potentially losing a rifle. My swag is that, to break even, HK would have to sell 2 rifles for each one stolen at such a show; that means HK would had to sell about 30 rifles just to break even if EVERY rifle there was stolen. Mathematically, the question comes down to whether or HK's presence at the NRA show will generate more than the sale of 30 rifles. My gut tells me that from a purely economic marketing perspective HK would have been much better off letting the NRA members handle the rifles without the don't steal me cords. A prime example of that would be the Sig booth which was way more crowed than the HK booth and had people handling rifles all over the place.


As for the weight of the MR762 it is heavy especially outfitted as a Match Rifle with optics and accessories. .... During the 2004 SHOT Show where the first semi-only Commercial HKM4C's (later called HK416's) were shown HK had some outfitted with light polymer and attractive handguards as you mentioned designed and made at HK GmbH. This would have been a smart option for the MR762 for those who wanted a lighter weight rifle without the need for the fussy dice attachment points you mentioned.

G3Kurz
That brings up a good point, I was under the impression that the MR762 is not a "match quality"/"sniper" weapon. So, why hang heavy "match" equipment off of it?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,807 Posts
It did bring to mind the whole German vs American made issue; I have a hard time conceiving that the scope would have been mounted incorrectly if the NRA convention had been held in Oberndorf am Neckar. It is a very big faux pas when the first customer experience a person has with your flagship rifle is a strong visual indication that something is not right; the very first thing people do is pick up the rifle and look down the sights. Of course mistakes do happen, but it is something else when that mistake carries over for the entire 3 days of the convention; the scope was crooked on Friday and it was still crooked at closing time on Sunday.



I did not see ANY other booth at the Convention where the long guns where tethered. But it comes down to an economics question, the opportunity costs of lost sales/good impressions vs the cost of potentially losing a rifle. My swag is that, to break even, HK would have to sell 2 rifles for each one stolen at such a show; that means HK would had to sell about 30 rifles just to break even if EVERY rifle there was stolen. Mathematically, the question comes down to whether or HK's presence at the NRA show will generate more than the sale of 30 rifles. My gut tells me that from a purely economic marketing perspective HK would have been much better off letting the NRA members handle the rifles without the don't steal me cords. A prime example of that would be the Sig booth which was way more crowed than the HK booth and had people handling rifles all over the place.




That brings up a good point, I was under the impression that the MR762 is not a "match quality"/"sniper" weapon. So, why hang heavy "match" equipment off of it?
It only makes it worse when the scope was still canted after 3 days and no one bothered fixing it.

Economics don't enter into the reason for the cords. Companies spend $1K of dollars at these shows for floor space, booth set up/labor, etc. The show organizers don't take kindly to lost guns being reported to local LE which is mandatory. I never liked the cords either when I worked the booth but try keeping your eye on 20 weapons, mags and accessories around 40 persons while trying to answer questions. It is impossible. The fact that SIG or others do not do it is likely of little concern to those that do.

The MR762 was an attempt to just get an HK 7.62mm auto-loader on the US market using what was already on hand. That only took 5 years. There should have been variants IMO or at least some new accessories, uppers for it.

G3Kurz
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
893 Posts
Look at the bright side, it didn't make it on the cover of the promo literature.
So...was there anything positive from the HK booth? Like maybe those extended MR762 rails with the flip up sight going to be state side anytime soon?
Personally, I'm happy that after X years, they've finally got product out.
 

·
H&K Certified Armorer
Joined
·
8,216 Posts
Look at the bright side, it didn't make it on the cover of the promo literature.
So...was there anything positive from the HK booth? Like maybe those extended MR762 rails with the flip up sight going to be state side anytime soon?
Personally, I'm happy that after X years, they've finally got product out.
Extended rails are on the wish list as is the Nill HK-logo'd PSG-1 style grip.

But if you really want good news from the HK booth. A boy an his father visited the booth. I spent a good amount of time with them and learned that the boy, 14, was due for another round of open-heart surgeries. His wish before surgery was to vist the HK booth at the NRA show and check out the guns. He really wanted an SL8 as his SL8 airsoft gun was on its last leg. I passed the story along, introduced them to Jason and a few others, and then HK donated the boy an SL8. Doesn't get much better than that.
 

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
11,804 Posts
*MOST* of the weapons at shows like the NRA and SHOT are tethered, especially the pistols. I was there at the NRA show and this was the case. Most convention centers are requiring tethers and soon ALL weapons will be required to have tethers by contract. I cannot believe that this is a serious gripe, though. How about us exhibitors gripe about the obnoxious visitors?
  • I continue to be amazed at how many dolts repeatedly dry fire AR style weapons.
  • There is no good reason for you to reach over the table and grab a handful of writing pens. They are not logo'd and nothing indicated that I was giving them away.
  • That jar of candy... Take one or two, not several handfuls to scoop into your swag bag. And no, telling me that your kids missed lunch doesn't make up for your idiocy.
  • I am not the information kiosk. Believe it or not, the Information Kiosk is.
  • There really is no good reason for you to not bathe for a week before you attend the show.
  • My exhibit is not a place for you to store your overflowing backpack while talking with the folks at the booth next door.

Most of the problems encountered at big shows have to do with the fact that folks have absolutely no regard for respect or decorum.

And the NRA show is not really a selling show for most of the big companies. That's what SHOT is for.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,248 Posts
*MOST* of the weapons at shows like the NRA and SHOT are tethered, especially the pistols. I was there at the NRA show and this was the case. Most convention centers are requiring tethers and soon ALL weapons will be required to have tethers by contract. I cannot believe that this is a serious gripe, though. How about us exhibitors gripe about the obnoxious visitors?
  • I continue to be amazed at how many dolts repeatedly dry fire AR style weapons.
  • There is no good reason for you to reach over the table and grab a handful of writing pens. They are not logo'd and nothing indicated that I was giving them away.
  • That jar of candy... Take one or two, not several handfuls to scoop into your swag bag. And no, telling me that your kids missed lunch doesn't make up for your idiocy.
  • I am not the information kiosk. Believe it or not, the Information Kiosk is.
  • There really is no good reason for you to not bathe for a week before you attend the show.
  • My exhibit is not a place for you to store your overflowing backpack while talking with the folks at the booth next door.

Most of the problems encountered at big shows have to do with the fact that folks have absolutely no regard for respect or decorum.

And the NRA show is not really a selling show for most of the big companies. That's what SHOT is for.
To dust off an old, family maxim: "People are just no damn good."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
*MOST* of the weapons at shows like the NRA and SHOT are tethered, especially the pistols.
The ONLY tethered long guns I saw at the NRA convention were the ones at the HK booth.

[*]I continue to be amazed at how many dolts repeatedly dry fire AR style weapons.
That IS one of the major advantages of the NRA convention over a gun show; the manufacturers will allow the attendees to function check weapons in a way gun show sellers won't. The Geissele table was MORE than happy to let people dry fire their AR's repeatedly.


[*]There is no good reason for you to reach over the table and grab a handful of writing pens. They are not logo'd and nothing indicated that I was giving them away.
I would call that a missed marketing opportunity. The show was short of really good freebies, except for the Magpul booth where they were handing out free pmags.

And the NRA show is not really a selling show for most of the big companies. That's what SHOT is for.
I wonder about that; but it does seem like the NRA convention is a manufacturer's best opportunity to generate good product "word of mouth" with the end customer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,291 Posts
...........The cords are almost mandatory now as there have been so many thefts of items at these shows. Some folks out there have and will steal anything not nailed down to include the firearms themselves and come for that reason. The guns come off the wall, get handed back into the rows and mob and can come back with pieces missing. There are never enough friendly eyes to keep track of everything at once. Most vendors have lost sights and other items his way, to include HK...............

I was talking to a guy from Colt at SHOT this year. I remarked how light their adaptive carbine was. He said it was, but the fact that someone stole the bolt carrier from the display model may have had something to do with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
141 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
A boy an his father visited the booth. I spent a good amount of time with them and learned that the boy, 14, was due for another round of open-heart surgeries. His wish before surgery was to vist the HK booth at the NRA show and check out the guns. He really wanted an SL8 as his SL8 airsoft gun was on its last leg. I passed the story along, introduced them to Jason and a few others, and then HK donated the boy an SL8. Doesn't get much better than that.
That doesn't surprise me one bit; from what I saw, the people at the HK booth were very helpful to the children and young shooters I saw.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,939 Posts
thank you for nailing it SG

I recall last years NRA show in the burgh and many Guns are tethered to include long guns


I have always expected this and it is the same way in our local gunshows
 

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
11,804 Posts
As a point of order... I'm not trying to be bitter. Just trying to point out that some have unrealistic expectations and that you generally give as good as your get. If some did not see the 100's of tethers at the show, then they really weren't looking. Mistakes happen at every display and mine was no different (the main display gun never showed). The point is to have a gripe about something that matters and that everything has a 180 degree mirror. Doing the chicken wing and dropping the hammer 19 times doesn't accomplish squat. Being a rude swag grubber doesn't do much, either. Being polite and human goes miles toward good.

The NRA show is about support and thanks for the environment that encourages all that is 2A. Theft and crass attitude is the exact opposite. A young gentleman who engaged in thoughtful conversation with me lamented that he had missed out on a commemorative coin that was being given out as swag at a booth several doors down. I gave him mine. The grubbers that took my candy yet never even bothered to inquire about what I was promoting or even look up to SAY THANK YOU received my derision.

The money that you spend to get into one of these shows does not entitle you to be rude or offensive, even though many do act that way. And while it is certainly less than ideal for a scope to be off on a featured display, I suggest that this opprobrium is ill-placed. There are many things that went wrong with this show. The original complaints strike me as picayune.
 
1 - 20 of 30 Posts
Top