[danimal442]

if you had a kit hk rifle that you wanted to sell and they basicly come f/a can you just mill the slot in the bolt and keep the f/a trigger pack with a c&p housing and just to make sure i am thinking right you cannot remove the shelf on the mag housing to make a f/a grip frame with s/a parts or other wise made to semi(i am allmost positive you can't) because all the kits send you a f/a pack that does not fit anyway what is the best and cheapest way to put a s/a grip/pack in its place and can i just mill bolt or do i have to do both sorry i know i 'm prone to rambling thanks men

 

[mt162]

The pack has to be converted to semiauto only. The bolt carrier doesn't matter.

 

[Chopstix Kid]

If you have an HK kit rifle "that you wanted to sell and they basicly come f/a" then what you probably have is an illegal machine gun in your possession.

If all you have is the PARTS KIT, then there is nothing you need to do. Parts are parts regardless if they are F/A parts or not, assuming your possession of such parts is not to illegally manufacture/assemble a machine gun.

 

[danimal442]

thanks mt162 this is what i needed to know thank you chopstix as well i do have a kit and it does contain offending parts i have no intention of building a f/a as i do not have the credentials but i did want to know prior to my build if the f/a bolt can stay so i now need a s/a trigger pack as i am not ready to demil the f/a pack as i am not a rocket scientist either will a standard s/a grip and pack fit i assume it has to be a c&p or a clip on s/a grip? thank all of you for sharing your amazing knowlage of all things hk dan

 

[jredd246]

modifying the pack for s/a is really pretty easy. You need to buy a new sear spring and spacer but everything else can be done in a few minutes with a dremmel and cutoff disk. Check out the diy postings on weaponsguild.com. very helpful. may even be something here posted as a how-to.

in a nutshell: cut the front corner off so the auto sear pin hole is gone. drill a new sear spring hole in the remaining nub of the trigger pack (just look at some side by side pics of f/a and s/a packs and you'll see what i'm talking about). throw auto parts away, and grind the f/a stop off of the hammer. the only semi-difficult part is just knowing how to disassemble and reassemble the trigger pack. good pics help with that.

 

[Chopstix Kid]

Are you building a firearm or are you selling the kit?

If you are selling the kit, you do not need to do anything. Simply sell the kit.

If you are building a firearm, you will need the pack properly converted to semi-auto or replaced with a semi-auto pack. The housing can be either; with a semi-auto pack, the markings on the housing are merely a cosmetic feature.

EDIT: looks like I beat to the punch by 2 minutes

 

[danimal442]

chopstix building a kit that i could coceivably sell in the future mostly wondering now what to do with the f/a parts which jred246 pretty much answered also thanks to mt162 as what to do with my bolt as that would just be another expense build is actually started ,going nice and slow i am not in any rush discovered i have pretty much zero gap measred the rollers and they are standard just thinking about jumping to +06 as i think with the +4 i'd be at maybe 8 thou would like 12 thou better i am also thinking barrels now and i can get a 16" and use my flash hider for $100 behind door #2 is the 12.69 33k barrel with4.80"flashhider for a total of 17.49 anyone know who has a 3.31"flashhider lol i may cut an inch or so off my 4.8" seems like a lot of trouble but door#2 option is going to look more sbr-ish what do hk do wwhkdo wtf

 

[gopherboy128]

Not to hijack, but I am having this same question also- as I understand it, so long as semi-auto receiver and full-auto trigger pack can NOT be joined together, you're in the clear. If you remove the shelf on the receiver, or modify the factory full-auto pack to fit over the shelf, then you've assembled an illegal MG and are headed to prison. Considering buying up a MP5 parts kit but already have HKs in the safe, don't want to get in trouble for parts-kit full-auto trigger pack.

 

[jredd246]

You've got it gopherboy128. The "shelf" in theory is supposed to extend into the trigger group into the place where the auto sear used to be. An unmodified pack would run into this shelf and keep the trigger housing assembly from mating up.

 

[gopherboy128]

Thanks jredd246! Didn't know if I needed to worry about it or go buy some plastic tubs and a shovel

 

[scottinthegrove]

modifying the pack for s/a is really pretty easy. You need to buy a new sear spring and spacer but everything else can be done in a few minutes with a dremmel and cutoff disk. Check out the diy postings on weaponsguild.com. very helpful. may even be something here posted as a how-to.

in a nutshell: cut the front corner off so the auto sear pin hole is gone. drill a new sear spring hole in the remaining nub of the trigger pack (just look at some side by side pics of f/a and s/a packs and you'll see what i'm talking about). throw auto parts away, and grind the f/a stop off of the hammer. the only semi-difficult part is just knowing how to disassemble and reassemble the trigger pack. good pics help with that.

You have most of the pack modifications correct, but you are missing a very important detail. A semi auto trigger stop must be permanently added to the pack. If not, if the selector is placed in the "AUTO" position, the disconnector will be out of the way if the trigger is pulled back to the full auto trigger stop. So the hammer can follow the carrier back into battery. While it might be difficult to make happen, depending on the sensitivity of the primer, if the next round goes off, the gun has now met the BATF&E definition of "machinegun". It would only have to happen once to be eligible for prosecution. My understanding is that possession of an unregistered machinegun could carry a fine of up to $10,000 and/or ten years in Federal prison.

For those interested in using a full auto parts set to build a semi auto firearm, I would highly recommend the The Complete Reference on the Legal NFA Conversion of HK Firearms so you understand what can and can not be done to receivers and parts. There is some great articles in "The World Of HK". The Tech Branch has come up with the methods that are allowed and not allowed. While removing the standard "catch" (HK term for auto sear) hole from the trigger frame is required, removal of the "catch", trip lever, and round off the notch in the hammer that would be held by the catch are required for full auto to semi auto trigger pack conversion. But permanently installing a semi auto trigger stop is also required. Good luck with your build or selling your parts set.

Scott

 

[M_E_]

A semi auto weapon that will accept a full auto pack is not illegal. If you ALSO have a full auto pack IN YOUR possession makes everything ILLEGAL, and you go to jail.

 

[scottinthegrove]

A semi auto weapon that will accept a full auto pack is not illegal. If you ALSO have a full auto pack IN YOUR possession makes everything ILLEGAL, and you go to jail.

Could you please give more detail as to how a "semi auto weapon that will accept a full auto pack is not illegal"? A semi auto roller locked receiver has a "shelf" attached to the receiver where the front push pin of a full auto trigger group would be. To be able to install an unmodified full auto pack in a semi auto receiver, the "shelf" of the semi auto receiver would not allow the unmodified full auto pack to be installed into the clipped hosing and put together. Removal of the "shelf" to allow use of an unmodified full auto housing would convert the semi auto receiver to a full auto possible receiver. So a semi auto receiver modified in this way would no longer be considered a semi auto receiver. So how could a "semi auto weapon that will accept a full auto pack" be a legal semi auto firearm without the "shelf"?

My understanding is a standard semi auto receiver with the "shelf" can not accept an unmodified full auto trigger pack. That is why it is legal to have a full auto parts set and a semi auto receiver. The full auto parts can not function with a semi auto receiver. The modifications required for full auto parts to function automatically with a semi auto receiver have already been written out by the Technology Branch as being illegal modifications. Preforming those modifications without NFA approval would be a felony. At least that is my understanding. YMMV.

Scott

 

[HKaltwasser]

A semi auto weapon that will accept a full auto pack is not illegal. If you ALSO have a full auto pack IN YOUR possession makes everything ILLEGAL, and you go to jail.

Is there any ATF documents that state this? I'm just curious because my understanding is: unless you've modified the full auto pack to fit the semi shelf, it's completely legal. Is it also illegal to have full auto carriers in our guns....uh-oh ::

I think you have it backwards.

 

[Shattered Mind]

Is there any ATF documents that state this? I'm just curious because my understanding is: unless you've modified the full auto pack to fit the semi shelf, it's completely legal. Is it also illegal to have full auto carriers in our guns....uh-oh ::

I think you have it backwards.

How polite... I'd just tell the NRA certified instructor and life member that he's wrong...

 

[gopherboy128]

Not to stir the pot, but I would like to see something stating this also. Not that you're wrong, I just hope I am right, ya know? After reading as much as I could, I was under the same impression, that the semi-auto shelf was the ATFs solution to prevent "readily convertible" MGs. Reason I ask is I have a Navy kit with ambi lower and don't want it to be an issue with my s/a clones. Granted it will be built up before long and be gone. But still, would like to see any ATF documents. One of these days someone should just write them and ask... but then again why invite The Man into your life?

 

[Shattered Mind]

But still, would like to see any ATF documents. One of these days someone should just write them and ask... but then again why invite The Man into your life?

You really want to know? Write Tech Branch yourself and air out your question. Any letter you get is addressed to YOU alone. Too many people here think that somebody else's letter covers them. It does not. Any letter I get concerning a similar situation covers me and me alone. You want answers to YOUR situation... write your own letter and not only get your answer but get YOUR butt covered as well. You DO know that ATF has on numerous occasions just said, "Oh, screw it... we changed our minds. You don't have a letter from us? Well then, sucks to be you".

 

[gopherboy128]

You really want to know? Write Tech Branch yourself and air out your question. Any letter you get is addressed to YOU alone. Too many people here think that somebody else's letter covers them. It does not. Any letter I get concerning a similar situation covers me and me alone. You want answers to YOUR situation... write your own letter and not only get your answer but get YOUR butt covered as well. You DO know that ATF has on numerous occasions just said, "Oh, screw it... we changed our minds. You don't have a letter from us? Well then, sucks to be you".

Friendly fire man. I dont have alot of experience with this, which is why I was asking. Dont want to get nailed for having semi clones with a f/a parts kit gun. Thats all. Thought the ruling was that the semi-shelf prevented it. Maybe I will write them and find out.

Thanks.

 

[Shattered Mind]

I'm not jumping yer bones... just telling you what the "letters" are all about. They are for the guy that wrote the letter... that's all, nothing more. Actually, there are complete guides listed in here on how to build your own gun following all the proper procedures, what is legal... what is not. Follow the guides and you'll have absolutely nothing to worry about.

 

[M_E_]

Don't know all details on the HK platform. I do know agout AR15s. I have many ARs. If I were to get a full auto bolt carrier, selector switch & full auto trigger, I can install it in my rifle in 10 minutes. That fact that I own an AR AND the full auto parts IN MY POSSESSION, not installed in the gun makes me ILLEGAL and I go to jail for having the ability to make a new machine gun. Your best bet is to contact the BATFE from a pay phone & ask them about your platform. Ask for a link to their rule books with the page numbers.