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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

First up - I hope this doesn't turn into a flame war. Not my intent at all. I know this stuff can get touchy, but I'm just trying to get a feel for whats out there.

My LGS has a Century HK93 that I've been flirting with. I'm new to the HK world, having just picked up a USC and SL8. Love 'em.

I've never owned a Century anything. My other long guns are a few M14/M1A variants, DSA FAL, and a few different types of Kalashnikov guns. I'm not afraid of putting top dollar into the "good stuff" (SAI and HK). But I'm not a 'fan boy' or 'gun snob', and I don't require immaculate fit and finish if the price is right. At the end of the day, I just want my guns to run well (hence, my AKs). In the AK world, Century seems to be hit or miss. Some guys swear that with a Century AK, and a bit of elbow grease, you're good to go. Might be true, as AK actions are pretty simple to work on. Others say to avoid them like the plague and get something else, for slightly more money. Fair enough - AKs are generally pretty inexpensive across the board.. but the price difference between a Century HK clone and a real HK is substantial.

In my looking around the forum here, it seems a lot of folks with Century HK clones end up sending them out to a smith to get worked over. Not a bad thing, and I'd certainly consider that as a way to go. Even with the extra work, you'd probably be into it for less money than a real HK, I'd imagine. But, still, it leaves me wondering if I wouldn't be better off money/investment wise just holding out for a real-deal HK. The re-sale value on a "tuned up Century" isn't going to be as nice as the resale on a HK branded gun. Just the facts, even if the Century ends up out-performing an HK that might need some work.

Then there are other HK clones, like Vector, ATI, and others. Very hard for a noob like me to get an idea of what to consider, and what to pass over. I know I can't go wrong with a real HK, but the price is significant. If I can get something that runs well, for half as much, that would be considered.

I just don't have any idea about the reputation for any of this stuff.

Opinions, and help in getting my bearings would be much appreciated.
 

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I personally would not buy a Century clone anything.

If you want a 93/clone, there are kits you can buy and guys on this site that can assemble a clone for you.
 

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IMHO there is NO reason to get a clone unless you live in a state like CA where the real thing is banned by name. I've had nothing but problems with my clones. If I could have bought the real thing, I'd have saved a lot of time and ultimately money.
 

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If it runs well I'm good to go! I do have HK bolt groups in all my guns, but for the price of the real deal HK's I have a variety of clones and even to custom builds by Jeff. The single biggest issue I've had is mags.... The ATI's bought from Robert or Adam run good, the bulk Korean seem to be more miss then hit and the German Mags are GREAT! I try to pick up extra german 9mm mags when possible, but have it running good.

I applaud those who have a nice collection of real deal HK's, but for the price of three real PDW's I could have a sear to shoot the crap out of clones. Anyway to each their own, some are pure, others are not.

J
 

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At this point with a new US barrel and very soon a US receiver I am looking at just buying a parts kit unless the perfect C93 comes along locally
 

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Discussion Starter #6
What is the general view of Vector Arms stuff? How about the PTR series?
 

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I have a PTR with 18 inch heavy barrel,, nothing but good to say about it.. some others have had issues with one run of PTRs but now PTR has a lifetime warranty (retroactive)
 

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What is the general view of Vector Arms stuff? How about the PTR series?
Pretty much anything is better than a gun the angry monkees make. The parts are good it is just the way they are put together. The new vector has had alot of problems with properly functioning guns but do seem to fix them. PTR is GTG. Word is they will eventually be making a 5.56 and a 9mm.
 

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It is only about money. If you got cash get a real HK. To me it's just like Rolex vs Folex both tell time but you will alwas know its a knockoff and can't afford a real thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It is only about money. If you got cash get a real HK. To me it's just like Rolex vs Folex both tell time but you will alwas know its a knockoff and can't afford a real thing.
Well, for collectors real HK is probably the only way to go. But I don't really see it this way. I'm a single dude with a good job. I have the cash to buy whatever I like. I didn't buy my Springfields, HKs or pricey glass because of the name, I bought them because they offered me tangible benefits in terms of ergonomics, reliability, clarity, ruggedness, etc over other platforms/options. Likewise, I didn't buy my AKs because I was looking to skimp on price. Price is honestly the last thing I look at. If two options are essentially equal on important points of my criteria, but there is a vast price difference, I'll choose the cheaper option. If I need to spend 4x as much to get something that meets all my criteria, I will.

But status symbols mean little to me. If the only tangible difference between a PTR and a real HK is in the realm of aesthetics or the ability to name-drop "HK" .. I'll choose the PTR. But if real HKs are really known to be more reliable than any clone, that is an entirely different story: then, there is a tangible benefit, and the name and re-sale value is a sweet little cherry on top.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Pretty much anything is better than a gun the angry monkees make. The parts are good it is just the way they are put together. The new vector has had alot of problems with properly functioning guns but do seem to fix them. PTR is GTG. Word is they will eventually be making a 5.56 and a 9mm.
Hmm. Thanks. I saw PTR has some odd-ball models in 7.62x39, too. If they are indeed planning on bringing out 5.56, and 9mm, it makes me hold out hope for something in 5.45x39 as well.
 

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Good brands stand good quality. So when you buy a real hk you know the quality you can expect. There is a reason why expansive things are emitatid it is the quality. The reason real hk selling for more money is people are willing to pay do get the the quality product and also import restriction.

I would and did my self get a real hk at least the first one as a gold standard.

Well, for collectors real HK is probably the only way to go. But I don't really see it this way. I'm a single dude with a good job. I have the cash to buy whatever I like. I didn't buy my Springfields, HKs or pricey glass because of the name, I bought them because they offered me tangible benefits in terms of ergonomics, reliability, clarity, ruggedness, etc over other platforms/options. Likewise, I didn't buy my AKs because I was looking to skimp on price. Price is honestly the last thing I look at. If two options are essentially equal on important points of my criteria, but there is a vast price difference, I'll choose the cheaper option. If I need to spend 4x as much to get something that meets all my criteria, I will.

But status symbols mean little to me. If the only tangible difference between a PTR and a real HK is in the realm of aesthetics or the ability to name-drop "HK" .. I'll choose the PTR. But if real HKs are really known to be more reliable than any clone, that is an entirely different story: then, there is a tangible benefit, and the name and re-sale value is a sweet little cherry on top.
 

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Pretty much anything is better than a gun the angry monkees make. The parts are good it is just the way they are put together. The new vector has had alot of problems with properly functioning guns but do seem to fix them. PTR is GTG. Word is they will eventually be making a 5.56 and a 9mm.
5.56? Do tell..
 

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It is only about money. If you got cash get a real HK. To me it's just like Rolex vs Folex both tell time but you will alwas know its a knockoff and can't afford a real thing.
I can eventually afford a real HK93.. but I am going to bubba it up with mods and ceracote it in tigerstripe so why spend that kind of money on a nice HK? if I buy another HK it is going to stay original
 

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But status symbols mean little to me. If the only tangible difference between a PTR and a real HK is in the realm of aesthetics or the ability to name-drop "HK" .. I'll choose the PTR. But if real HKs are really known to be more reliable than any clone, that is an entirely different story: then, there is a tangible benefit, and the name and re-sale value is a sweet little cherry on top.
This is a salient point and pretty much how I feel. It's a stamped steel and welded gun. You look at something Joe( chopsticks) puts out, it runs 100% but is cosmetically better than an HK and it is not 5K. Jeff (ghillebear) and Jayson( IGF) equally make guns certainly on par with HK quality ( finish and function). Some have made poor copies.
These guns are not like comparing a Mercedes say for instance, to a Cadillac or a Springfield 1903-a3 to an AK47 or an Leupold optic to a Leapers optic. They are just not made to comparable levels. Stamped and welded guns are.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
5.56? Do tell..
I'd like to hear more about this, or a pointer to an article or something too. I have 3 semi-auto 7.62x51 rifles, so I'm not real hip on getting a PTR91 at present.. but alternative calibers would certainly get my attention.
 
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