[patriot_man]

I was just watching a modcast from Primary and Secondary on YouTube and heard this blurb about the developmental history of the 14.5" HK416. Just a small bit, not too much info but still thought some would find it interesting. I haven't finished the video yet but there is some other HK416 stuff around 53:43 as well as before.

More @ 2:06:00

@2: 20: 00 - HK factory

https://youtu.be/djupCvW_iMU?t=41m18s

A group of smart dudes, some door kickers, etc talking about guns.

 

[Austin1776]

My favorite videos on the HK416 from a couple guys who were involved early on in its development:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L73NzKdWAHw

 

[G3Kurz]

Lots of opinions, inaccuracies and guesses from these so-called "smart dudes".

While I did not watch it all most of what I did see was lots of four letter words and strong personal opinions unsupported by facts, little expertise or solid knowledge on the subject matter as it pertains to the HK bits.

@ 53:43 - HK416 barrel gauges. No US M4 gauges will not work properly with the HK416. The chamber to and bore dimensions are not the same. HK does offer "caliber gauges" for the bore that will measure the caliber at every point along the way to determine what the wear is at those spots. They also made a NO GO gauge set for the American HK416 users at their request. It is possible these were not available when AWG first purchased their HK416's but they were soon after. Lots of units have them to include the USMC for their M27's. The joke is on "the dudes" as this caliber gauge set allows one to exactly determine the bore erosion and not just NO or NO GO-which means you might allow a gun to get deployed when it is right under the NO GO spec and accuracy suffers during that rotation.

@ 2:06 - The OTB (Over the Beach) "Pimp Rifle" requirement they joke about was an official requirement from the US Special Operations Command based on repeated failures of M4 and M4A1 barrels with obstructed bores and to meet the demand of the combat swimmer who needs to engage targets as soon as they break the surface and before they can "ford" (drain) the water from the bore and weapon. It was in the SCAR test and remains a requirement for those operating around "the surf zone". HK simply responded to it for the HK416. It was and has been offered as a special variant for those who want it and certain components of the OTB system became standard production so as to reduce weapon and parts variances and compatibility issues. Joke all they want but HK was the first to provide this requested unique capability in series production carbines (LONG before LWRCI, and at no cost to the Govt). Robert Hirt in that test video on the HK Aixheim range was courageous to even attempt that test. Lots of dudes have been messed up when M16 and M4 receivers came apart in their faces due to water or projectiles logged in the bore. They likely would have avoided injury with such a feature in place.

If you are going to make fun of Oberndorf and the factory there, at least learn how to pronounce the word "Oberndorf".

@2:20 - The "semi-skilled *** f_ _k" technician the unnamed commentator refers to running a modern injection molding machine, regardless of his choice of clothing, likely has at least 4 years apprentice time (and who knows how many years on the job) making far more than just UMP receivers. This character likely has not been to other plants where the style of dress is often left up to the work (within reason) to include those in the US. The Remington plant in Ilion NY has many equally "colorful" yet highly skilled "characters working" there.

There is NO redeeming value to this video unless you like to watch reasonably knowledge dudes try to out curse and out do one another. One guy in particular I am surprised to see in the mess to begin with.

For what its worth.

G3Kurz

 

[Marine0303]

I whole heartedly agree with Jim. All too often we see people with lots of opinions, but no real experience or education on a specific matter, taking to the internet and YouTube specifically to pontificate on one issue or another.
I would think that if they were serious about providing anything worth value, they would have done some research, or contacted someone at H&K to confirm or deny specific items before waxing ignorantly and dropping indiscriminate f-bombs to baseless comments.
Not professional and with no value.

 

[Brad4065]

Hmmmm......what's the word I'm searching for???

Darwinism.

 

[AGG]

The HK experts are HERE!!! :biggrin:

Tony

 

[Augee]

I haven't watched the video and don't really intend to watch two hours plus of dudes talking, so I have nothing to say about who is in it and how valid their points of view are or are not.

I'm surprised that their use of profanity is a major point of criticism, though. Who care how many times they say ****? Is their point valid or not? Saying "****" does not make their points any more *or* less valid.

And yes, I've heard all the "it's not professional," blah blah arguments, which are all frankly coded elitism about who was "raised right," AKA: "comes from a similar background to me," profanity as a class of taboo language is about one of the most inane, arbitrary, and obsolete-the-moment-it-was-conceived concepts imaginable.

Anyways, unrelated topic rant off. It's just one of those topics that crosses my wires.

~Augee

 

[Augee]

Oh, wow. I didn't even realize that this forum auto-censored.

Ha. Wow.

Just for the record, I've got no problem with that, the forum owners are welcome to set the rules as they please, it's their board, and I'm a guest here by choice, so their rules are the rules I must abide by, my personal feelings aside.

~Augee

 

[Austin1776]

Well, that escalated quickly.

 

[Augee]

If it wasn't about profanity for you, then I wasn't referring to you. Other members specifically mentioned it.

I was not defending the people in the video, or their decision to focus their attention on the way someone was dressed.

"Crude for the sake of crude" is stupid, but it can only exist because certain words/actions are deemed "crude" in the first place, leading to some people wanting to overdo it. You statement that "it has a place" and that it "cheapens it for the rest of us" is merely a reversal of the same, you are giving profanity a somehow "special" and "privileged" status in comparison to other language.

You changed your post while I was responding. That's fine, but no one complained about them being inarticulate or generally annoying to listen to, the use of profanity specifically was called out.

Anyways, I wasn't talking to you in the first place, and I have caused this thread to digress, for which I apologize, so I will refrain from any further responses in this vein so that conversation can get back on track.

~Augee

 

[Hammer27]

If you've been around the military this kind of banter is pretty standard for the demographic these guys/this guy comes from. Lots of bluster, lots of ego, lots of "expertise." I don't think Primary and Secondary is all bad, but I don't think they're exactly the definitive source of information on anything. While its unprofessional in some contexts, I can get over the profanity. This isn't meant to be a university lecture; its literally a bunch of old dudes shooting the breeze. If that's the image they're trying to portray and the crowd/customers they want they'll be doing just fine.

Edit to add:

Also found their complete oversight of the M27 interesting when they were going on about how a piston gun that isn't an SBR is useless.

 

[Marine0303]

If you've been around the military this kind of banter is pretty standard for the demographic these guys/this guy comes from. Lots of bluster, lots of ego, lots of "expertise." I don't think Primary and Secondary is all bad, but I don't think they're exactly the definitive source of information on anything. While its unprofessional in some contexts, I can get over the profanity. This isn't meant to be a university lecture; its literally a bunch of old dudes shooting the breeze. If that's the image they're trying to portray and the crowd/customers they want they'll be doing just fine.

Edit to add:

Also found their complete oversight of the M27 interesting when they were going on about how a piston gun that isn't an SBR is useless.

I can get past the unprofessional language. Hell, I'm a Marine. I just think it shows that you're not being professional and even a Marine can do that when he should. I mean honestly, don't you think you'd come away with a much better impression of this entire video if it were done without all of that baser language?
My biggest complaint though is their lack of real knowledge, experience and background on the weapons in questions.
When you put yourself out on a public forum like this, sadly, many will take what they are providing as the gospel and it is just plain wrong. That kind of behavior, like the language, is also unprofessional. Unless you start out your video by saying, "what we are about to discuss is based solely on our personal feelings and no real research or data, beyond the time I got to shoot ... or I heard it from a dude".
I literally get daily PMs, emails and phone calls from guys referencing inaccurate information like what was presented here. As a professional, I always take the time to properly educate those people and/or point them in the right direction, but it remains very clear how misleading this type of stuff can be, especially to those without the background and think that guys like this are experts and know what they are talking about.

 

[fargo007]

Any discussion of the HK416 invariably leads to the exchange of confirmation bias handies over how awesome the direct impingement rifle is, and how the HK 416 system is unnecessary, saving a very narrow set of circumstances which for some reason we are instructed to leave unconsidered.

People with a safe full of direct gas AR15's to worship don't want to wake up one day and realize that they are yesterday's rifle. That they've invested their lives in something that is getting replaced, so they will lash out at anything that looks like a replacement candidate.

You can hear the acolytes on this video. All that's missing is a box of kleenex and a bottle of jergens.

 

[Hammer27]

I can get past the unprofessional language. Hell, I'm a Marine. I just think it shows that you're not being professional and even a Marine can do that when he should. I mean honestly, don't you think you'd come away with a much better impression of this entire video if it were done without all of that baser language?
My biggest complaint though is their lack of real knowledge, experience and background on the weapons in questions.
When you put yourself out on a public forum like this, sadly, many will take what they are providing as the gospel and it is just plain wrong. That kind of behavior, like the language, is also unprofessional. Unless you start out your video by saying, "what we are about to discuss is based solely on our personal feelings and no real research or data, beyond the time I got to shoot ... or I heard it from a dude".
I literally get daily PMs, emails and phone calls from guys referencing inaccurate information like what was presented here. As a professional, I always take the time to properly educate those people and/or point them in the right direction, but it remains very clear how misleading this type of stuff can be, especially to those without the background and think that guys like this are experts and know what they are talking about.

I think we're in total agreement, just saying it differently. I also suspect my relative apathy to P&S is because I'm not getting phone calls because of internet bluster.
I'll toe the party line and say that as Marines we often do a very good job at the professionalism and presentation side. Haley and yourself being key examples to counter what we saw in the original post. I have personally seen a company commander who couldn't go three words without an f-bomb but instantly became a world class orator when briefing the regimental commander.

 

[Marine0303]

I think we're in total agreement, just saying it differently. I also suspect my relative apathy to P&S is because I'm not getting phone calls because of internet bluster.
I'll toe the party line and say that as Marines we often do a very good job at the professionalism and presentation side. Haley and yourself being key examples to counter what we saw in the original post. I have personally seen a company commander who couldn't go three words win out an f-bomb but instantly became a world class orator when briefing the regimental commander.

I've seen that too. It helps to know when to flip that switch on and off.