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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys i dont post much here but im lookig into going from DI to piston. Its beena. Tough choice since ive never had issues with DI. I also cant deny that the groups of the US military that get to choose their weapons go piston AR's.

So im wondering which is better the H&K 416 or the PWS MK110

I know both are proven designs and that the H&K416 is used by the SEALS, but i recently got a book American Sniper and the guy the book is about has a few pics of him in there using a PWS MK110 when not using his sniper rifle, this is the reason im torn between the two.

So what do yall think? I want to try to keep this about facts and specs not i like H&K so go with it.

Thanks guys
 

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Sinless,

There is a wealth of information here about the 416/MR556 platform with regard to technical and operational specs. The thread linked below might provide you with some good info on what the Hk brings to the table:
http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk416-hk417-hq/149804-technical-reasons-why-hk-416-mr-556-superior-ar-15-design.html

I don't know much about the PWS rifles...so take my opinion here with a grain of salt, but off the bat, they seem very much like a "We made a piston AR15 too and it's the super-best!!!" kind of product. Just from a quick 5-minute review of their product, I noticed they only offer a 2-year warranty on products and rifles vs. Hk's Lifetime warranty. Their quad rail does NOT free-float the barrel vs. Hk's free-float rail. They only use stainless barrels which I'm not a fan of for hard-use, and the barrels come in 1/8 twist...which isn't bad...but 1/7 is much more to my liking for heavier bullets and use with suppressors. It's like comparing DPMS with Colt or Knight's Armament. They look the same, they have the same style of operating system...but their quality is WORLDS apart.

Products aside, just think about the companies for a minute:

PWS: Who are they? How long have they been making firearms? What history do they have supporting small arms for law-enforcement and military use? What kind of R&D capabilities do they have? What professionals use and promote their products? Are they even going to be around in 10 years?

Hk has been supplying and supporting countless LE Organizations and Militaries around the world with high-grade, battle-proven small-arms designs for over 50 years. They are continuously on the forefront of weaponry research and design, and have earned one of the highest regarded reputations for quality, durability, and innovation found in the entire world of firearms manufacturing. Hk is not perfect mind you...but their reputation has not been gained by chance.

You can pretty much count on Hk producing top-quality, cutting-edge firearms for the rest of your life. Can you say this with ANY certainty about PWS? The experience, capabilities, and resources of Heckler & Koch as a gun manufacturer/designer are in a completely different league.

Edit to add: Why on earth are you basing part of YOUR firearm purchase off seeing one guy from a sniper book using a certain rifle? That's ridiculous if you ask me. Do you have any idea why he chose that rifle or whether his reasons would even align with yours? Get a rifle from a well-known manufacturer of known quality and use it, practice with it, and figure out from doing so, what the BEST rifle is for YOU.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the link and info, its very helpful and you make good points.

As for the edit: the guy in the book was in seal team 3 which is why i was considering the rifle, since i know the H&K416 is used by the seals and apparently the PWS was in a small ammount
 

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Hey guys i dont post much here but im lookig into going from DI to piston. Its beena. Tough choice since ive never had issues with DI. I also cant deny that the groups of the US military that get to choose their weapons go piston AR's.

So im wondering which is better the H&K 416 or the PWS MK110

I know both are proven designs and that the H&K416 is used by the SEALS, but i recently got a book American Sniper and the guy the book is about has a few pics of him in there using a PWS MK110 when not using his sniper rifle, this is the reason im torn between the two.

So what do yall think? I want to try to keep this about facts and specs not i like H&K so go with it.

Thanks guys

Thanks for the link and info, its very helpful and you make good points.

As for the edit: the guy in the book was in seal team 3 which is why i was considering the rifle, since i know the H&K416 is used by the seals and apparently the PWS was in a small ammount/QUOTE]

WTF does it matter if the guy in "What ever book" was using XXX rifle? Are you one of the "the SEALS/CAG/Rangers/ETC use it so it must be the best and I need one type of people? You come to a forum that is a HK whore house and you expect to get the oh XXX rifle will know the socks off the MR556.. Come on go to AR15.com and they will be more then glad to help you out....The 556 weights to much and you need a BCM/Colt/ what ever they were cuddling this morning.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
WTF does it matter if the guy in "What ever book" was using XXX rifle? Are you one of the "the SEALS/CAG/Rangers/ETC use it so it must be the best and I need one type of people? You come to a forum that is a HK whore house and you expect to get the oh XXX rifle will know the socks off the HK556.. Come on go to AR15.com and they will be more then glad to help you out....The 556 weights to much and you need a BCM/Colt/ what ever they were cuddling this morning.
No need to be upset, it was a simple question.

I realize this is the H&K forum but i have also seen a higher level of maturity here as well.

Thats why i figured this would be a good place to ask, i know on most sites people would tell me that DI is the way to go just keep it lubed and clean, trust me ive always run DI and i feel they have their place(civilian use, LE, DMR rifles)

But im lookig for the best. I know the 416 is proven and reliable. One thing about the PWS that caught my eye was the piston design, its built like the AK piston system, and i figured if its seen some combat use it must be decent, it was a simple question asking which has the better design to it. No need to be rude and tell me togo some where else

The book is an autobiogrphy about a guy from seal tem 3
 

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No need to be upset, it was a simple question.

I realize this is the H&K forum but i have also seen a higher level of maturity here as well.

Thats why i figured this would be a good place to ask, i know on most sites people would tell me that DI is the way to go just keep it lubed and clean, trust me ive always run DI and i feel they have their place(civilian use, LE, DMR rifles)

But im lookig for the best. I know the 416 is proven and reliable. One thing about the PWS that caught my eye was the piston design, its built like the AK piston system, and i figured if its seen some combat use it must be decent, it was a simple question asking which has the better design to it. No need to be rude and tell me togo some where else

The book is an autobiogrphy about a guy from seal tem 3
I think you missed the point of myself and another member, why does it matter if the SEAL used it? Like Mike asked, why does it matter if he used it? Did he have a certain mission requirement where that was the rifle that fit the build? Have you ever spoke with him to find out? It should not matter if the SEALs or anyone else used the rifle, just because they use it does not mean its the best. Remember they used the SCAR,first run LWRC which was plagued with problems, KAC SASS which has horrible POI shifts with the can etc...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think you missed the point of myself and another member, why does it matter if the SEAL used it? Like Mike asked, why does it matter if he used it? Did he have a certain mission requirement where that was the rifle that fit the build? Have you ever spoke with him to find out? It should not matter if the SEALs or anyone else used the rifle, just because they use it does not mean its the best. Remember they used the SCAR,first run LWRC which was plagued with problems, KAC SASS which has horrible POI shifts with the can etc...
I will admit i dont know the most about the SEALS, i just figured they used the best, but you are correct about the scar, etc.

I do appreciate the information provided to me and i didnt mean to stir the pot. The main thing that had me lookin at PWS was the AK piston design but mike did bring up a good point when he mentioned how long will they be around
 

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You could probably ask twelve SEALs what each one would personally use to "get the job done" and get twelve different answers. This is why I take marketing material that claims "adopted by the Navy SEALs!", "the choice of Delta operators everywhere!!!" with a grain of salt.

The particular individual on SEAL Team 3 that you are referring to is just that, an individual. He probably knows a lot more about guns than you do, but I'm willing to bet that he probably knows a lot less than a dedicated and intelligent civilian who's into shooting and has never served one day in any military.

Don't go with one sailor's prefence in one SEAL team. I would do more research. I was at Rockcastle 3 Gun match last August and met an Army Special Forces recruiter. He was with the 5th group at Ft. Campbell, KY, and we've spoken on the phone about this and that and 3 Gun matches in general. He was searching for three gun kit and was in need of some advice on what shotgun to get.

Wanna know what his rifle of choice was for personal use? The Accurate Armory LE Light!

Are you gonna go to AR15.com now and ask about how awesome that rifle is? I think this is the point that PSG1 is trying to make. He does seem a little tense though, doesn't he?
 

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Hey guys i dont post much here but im lookig into going from DI to piston. Its beena. Tough choice since ive never had issues with DI. Then why the need to jump to a piston? I also cant deny that the groups of the US military that get to choose their weapons, some choose the 416

So im wondering which is better the H&K 416 or the PWS MK110

I know only the 416 is a proven design and that the H&K416 is used by the SEALS, but i recently got a book American Sniper and the guy the book is about has a few publicity stills of him in there using a PWS MK110 when not using his sniper rifle, this is the reason im torn between the two...and a poor reason for weapon selection at that

So what do yall think? I want to try to keep this about facts and specs not i like H&K so go with it.

Thanks guys
I fixed/added some input to your post.

Honestly, if the DI works for you, why fix what ain't broken? Yes, experts and top tier forces do endorse the 416. Doesn't it also say something that they also still use DI M4's. Those that truly need what the 416 offers require:
- Full Auto fire (SEALs/SF)
- Reliable suppressed fire (SEALs/SF)
- Barrels shorter than 14" (SEALs/SF)
- Different ammo types/weights

Don't get too sucked into the "Superbowl" mentality.
 

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You could probably ask twelve SEALs what each one would personally use to "get the job done" and get twelve different answers. This is why I take marketing material that claims "adopted by the Navy SEALs!", "the choice of Delta operators everywhere!!!" with a grain of salt.

The particular individual on SEAL Team 3 that you are referring to is just that, an individual. He probably knows a lot more about guns than you do, but I'm willing to bet that he probably knows a lot less than a dedicated and intelligent civilian who's into shooting and has never served one day in any military.

Don't go with one sailor's prefence in one SEAL team. I would do more research. I was at Rockcastle 3 Gun match last August and met an Army Special Forces recruiter. He was with the 5th group at Ft. Campbell, KY, and we've spoken on the phone about this and that and 3 Gun matches in general. He was searching for three gun kit and was in need of some advice on what shotgun to get.

Wanna know what his rifle of choice was for personal use? The Accurate Armory LE Light!

Are you gonna go to AR15.com now and ask about how awesome that rifle is? I think this is the point that PSG1 is trying to make. He does seem a little tense though, doesn't he?
When every thread you read anymore has a SEALS/CAG etc use it so that enough for me post it becomes a pain to read them. If I came off as tense, the I guess I am tense. I was never a fan of "There is never a stupid question."
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
When every thread you read anymore has a SEALS/CAG etc use it so that enough for me post it becomes a pain to read them. If I came off as tense, the I guess I am tense. I was never a fan of "There is never a stupid question."
See this is why i posted here, despite your tenseness im actually getting good feedback and not childish answeres.
DI does work for me, but at the same time i feel there has to be something better. The DI is a proven system but it also has its fair share of issues, i keep mine clean and wet but i also feel after 40yrs there has to have been some advances made to the AR platform also now that i have a registered lower that i can SBR it has me lookin into pistons.

I also have a suppressor which in my DI rifle i can go about 500rnds before needing to be cleaned but id love to be able to shoot longer suppressed on a SBR, which is why im here lookin for input on two different systems
 

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See this is why i posted here, despite your tenseness im actually getting good feedback and not childish answeres.
DI does work for me, but at the same time i feel there has to be something better. The DI is a proven system but it also has its fair share of issues, i keep mine clean and wet but i also feel after 40yrs there has to have been some advances made to the AR platform also now that i have a registered lower that i can SBR it has me lookin into pistons.

I also have a suppressor which in my DI rifle i can go about 500rnds before needing to be cleaned but id love to be able to shoot longer suppressed on a SBR, which is why im here lookin for input on two different systems
I was not giving a childish answer if I was it was to a childish question. Anyways since you did not reference SEALS this time I guess I can give a non childish answer.
I have not shot the rifle you are asking about but I have shot the 416 both suppressed and not.IT suppresses well but you hear a bit more to me due to the piston letting off gas. I could be wrong but it sounds louder to me. I have also shot a G36 suppressed and I felt that the 416 shot better suppressed, I have never used these rifles as they were intended my extent of their use was on a range and in a "shoot house." I have shot plenty of DI guns suppressed and I know what you are talking about on the fouling after a hundreds of rounds. They both have trade offs that are advantages and disadvantages, I do not follow the new HK's that much, I think though some where there is a thread here stating that HK produced a improved adjustable gas block for suppressed use. I doubt it will be available to the public though.
 

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No I think you were kinda cross unnecessarily. Some people out there who are newbies to guns and shooting, or even more seasoned shooters still buy into the "Buy this because Tier 1 Rambos use it!!!" marketing.

We must be patient with those who are not as immersed. Hell, I bought a Beretta M9 Special Edition package when I turned 21 because "it's the pistol the ARMY uses! YEAH!!1!!!!!"
 

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Sinless,

Both Colt & Hk are currently going to bat in the military's Improved Carbine competition with their piston AR15s. In the somewhat small chance that this competition yields a new rifle for our military...I would comfortably bet that it would be either the Colt or Hk submission that wins. If there are going to be any piston-driven AR15's around in 20 years, I would count on them being either Colt or Hk rifles. That's the way I see it anyhow. I look hard at rifles that I know are backed by solid companies, and who's product shows signs of having a strong future.

I've had a number of DI rifles, then got into 416's, and have just recently decided that a particular DI AR15 (MRP) suited my needs most accurately...and was the BEST option for ME...even over the Hk 416 I had. This doesn't mean I think it's better than the 416...it just means it more closely meets my goals/wants/needs/expectations than the 416.

Personally, if I were wanting a piston AR...I would wait a few weeks for shot show to see what Colt, Hk, and Remington have in store for the civilian market this coming year. They all have, what I think, are the most interesting and promising piston rifle designs. Colt 6940P, Hk MR556, Remington R5-RGP. I'm gong to watch all of these closely.

The Remington sure looks interesting to me!
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I was not giving a childish answer if I was it was to a childish question. Anyways since you did not reference SEALS this time I guess I can give a non childish answer.
I have not shot the rifle you are asking about but I have shot the 416 both suppressed and not.IT suppresses well but you hear a bit more to me due to the piston letting off gas. I could be wrong but it sounds louder to me. I have also shot a G36 suppressed and I felt that the 416 shot better suppressed, I have never used these rifles as they were intended my extent of their use was on a range and in a "shoot house." I have shot plenty of DI guns suppressed and I know what you are talking about on the fouling after a hundreds of rounds. They both have trade offs that are advantages and disadvantages, I do not follow the new HK's that much, I think though some where there is a thread here stating that HK produced a improved adjustable gas block for suppressed use. I doubt it will be available to the public though.
I wasnt saying you were childish, im sorry it came across that way. I mean i came to this website to avoid others that give childish answeres.

And yes im fairly new to the gun scheme, ive only been shooting for two years now and i do have my tendencies to go with the whole tier one stuf some times.

I do appreciate everyones help and understand for my dumb comments, i do think for only doing this a few years i know a good bit of info on guns.
 

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There are several manufactures who have gone the rout of the long (longer) stroke piston operation. HK went with the short stroke design, which originated (at least at HK) in the G36, then the OICW/XM8, and finally it ended up in the 416. The short stroke piston is touted as self regulating & self cleaning.

I know nothing about PWS, but as several folks have mentioned, HK has been in the business of arming military/LE for over 50 years. I run a 416, and love it. She's never let me down, and the short size fits the bill for my purposes.
 

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Gunbroker is a great place to get an mr556 upper.

I thought the comment about an intelligent civilian knowing more about firearms than a trained seal pretty funny.

It would be like a civilian telling a vascular surgeon he knew more about surgical tools because he reads post on the Internet.
 

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Gunbroker is a great place to get an mr556 upper.

I thought the comment about an intelligent civilian knowing more about firearms than a trained seal pretty funny.

It would be like a civilian telling a vascular surgeon he knew more about surgical tools because he reads post on the Internet.
Really? Do you think all "super special tier 1 operators" are gun guys? Do you think that the expert mechanic changing tires in a F1 pit crew knows more about his impact wrench then someone who might actually be an impact wrench enthusiast? Do you think that the worlds most talented guitar players also know more about their guitars and amplifiers then those who might actually be guitar or amplifier enthusiasts? Do you think also that professional baseball players know more about baseball bat and glove construction then someone who might have actually taken the time to study either?

Just because someone uses a tool in their day to day activities does not make them an expert on the tool. Someone who uses a tool may very well be an expert on said tool, but that might be for reasons completely unrelated. I'm not saying that "super duper tier 1 operators" are always, never, or sometimes more or less knowledgeable than anyone else on the subject, only that their chosen profession does not make them an expert by default. Working field knowledge does not an expert make. Just like a ball player may have his favorite glove because the glove always worked and never let him down, a SEAL may have his favorite tool for the same reason, not necessarily because it is more or less capable.

-W
 
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