[BarnOwlLover]

Video for those of you who haven't seen it yet (and no, ignore the pic that's a place holder, the 433 that James examines is basically brand new):

 

[RusGunner]

Tiny op rod? You're kidding, right? Have you seen the rod diameter on a G36?

Yes,but in G36 op rod not connected with BCG,his only function is strike bcg.In HK 433 op rod connected with carrier ,maybe welding,the lining of force parallel by bcg,but the carrier not in one line with the op rod.That make another force in place of welding op rod.I am sorry for not good English.

 

[RusGunner]

I just want to say about the locking mechanism.Some test of icing or freeze rifles show to us how lock up the multi lug bolt design.Ok,maybe tests of Kalashnikov Group and Garand Thumb not scientific ,but problem he show to us.In army we going to shooting range 2-3 km with someday -35C ,then wait in house +15C and move to range,AK74M not have any issues in this condition(cold,warm,cold,shoot) but they have 2 lug bolt and overgas piston system.In Russia weapon using almost 2-3 lug bolt,proven very high reliable lockin mechanism.But one weapon use the multi lug bolt - AS VAL.Use the advantages of multilug ,engineers add some features like the cuts on lug.This feature add more reliable function in severe condition,like cold environment,or some dirt in chamber area,or some dust dirt on ammo in the magazine.Sorry for bad English

 

[HKPRO]

Just because it's not identical to a Kalashnikov mechanism, doesn't automatically mean the HK433 will be inferior. HK engineers are doing extensive testing, and before production, it will be deemed correct. If not, they will keep working it out. The mechanism they are going with is just like the G36, but with a fixed op rod. Do you have a firearms engineering education?

 

[dms16]

Tiny op rod? You're kidding, right? Have you seen the rod diameter on a G36?

Well, to be fair this thread does exist

Bent G36C Op Rod

Has anyone ever bent an op rod on a G36 before? I took my Tommy built G36C out today, I’ve got roughly 150 rounds through it. About 50 rounds into my range trip I started having FTF’s. I disassembled the bolt, cleaned everything, re-lubed and attempted to shoot the gun again. Again, spent...

www.hkpro.com

This happens when debris gets into the gas port hole and builds up on the piston causing it to not fully seat forward and the carrier smashes against the Rod bending it. I have had this happen on a few C's and a K over the years. the aftermarket rods are hardened and I doubt is the issue. The times I have seen it its been ammo related or specific to an overpass issue.

That said, I kinda had a similar response upon seeing the carrier design. It's a system where in time the bugs and kinks have to be ironed out while the design matures. And inevitably every system is a chain with many links and while it may not be anything realistic life cycle, some link will be the one that fails given enough stress even if the required stress is not realistic.

No, I'm not an engineer though I shoot a lot of guns and break a lot of sh!t...

In the end, I have no dog in this fight as the odds of getting my hands on a 433 as an end-user are next to ZERO.

 

[BarnOwlLover]

Only thing we didn't see in James' video was how to remove the gas piston (HK433 uses a tappet piston like the SCAR and the M1 carbine that impinge on a op rod). I'm assuming that it may be similar to how it's done on the MP7.

 

[HKPRO]

Well, to be fair this thread does exist

Bent G36C Op Rod

Has anyone ever bent an op rod on a G36 before? I took my Tommy built G36C out today, I’ve got roughly 150 rounds through it. About 50 rounds into my range trip I started having FTF’s. I disassembled the bolt, cleaned everything, re-lubed and attempted to shoot the gun again. Again, spent...

www.hkpro.com

That said, I kinda had a similar response upon seeing the carrier design. It's a system where in time the bugs and kinks have to be ironed out while the design matures. And inevitably every system is a chain with many links and while it may not be anything realistic life cycle, some link will be the one that fails given enough stress even if the required stress is not realistic.

No, I'm not an engineer though I shoot a lot of guns and break a lot of sh!t...

In the end, I have no dog in this fight as the odds of getting my hands on a 433 as an end-user are next to ZERO.

I have not seen that on any operational G36s built in Germany. @German have you?

 

[BarnOwlLover]

HK433 uses a tappet piston as described, the G36's op rod is separate from the bolt carrier, while the 433's is integral to the bolt carrier.

 

[dms16]

HK433 uses a tappet piston as described, the G36's op rod is separate from the bolt carrier, while the 433's is integral to the bolt carrier.

Shhh 🤫...the adults are talking

 

[Tspeis]

Yes,but in G36 op rod not connected with BCG,his only function is strike bcg.In HK 433 op rod connected with carrier ,maybe welding,the lining of force parallel by bcg,but the carrier not in one line with the op rod.That make another force in place of welding op rod.I am sorry for not good English.

Op rod looks pretty stout to me, and has the same squared off shape we saw in some of the patent photos. That thing isn’t going to bend, it literally cycles through a channel inside the charging handle. They’ve done their homework just like they always do.

Unless the design has changed, the patent illustrations showed the op rod being secured in the carrier by some type of pin. Not welded. Makes sense if they want to use the same carrier setup for different variants requiring different op rod lengths (5.56 vs 300 BLK).

Ergonomically, I still wish this thing had an AR style charging handle. I know why they did what they did, but the folding handle just seems clumsy. Maybe different handle options will be a thing.


Tspeis

 

[German]

@German have you?

Never.

I wouldn't give much on the russian "analysis" of the HK433 operating system.

Ergonomically, I still wish this thing had an AR style charging handle.

And I would rather go with a fully ambidextrous solution like the G36 which is also a forward assist and has no need for switching from one side to the other.

I am used to work with an AR style charging handle, but it is far from anything closely resembling optimized ergonomics, it's just habit/practice.

Train a novice shooter and the G36 setup is far easier to teach for left and right handed shooters.

 

[BarnOwlLover]

More from HK Germany:

Seems that EnforceTac/IWA will be the 433 family's formal launch and HK have confirmed that it'll go into series production.

 

[plaidsteel]

@RusGunner

Gun stuff aside, good on you for the respectful retort to German’s offhand and unrelated comment.

 

[German]

But we tested scenario when dust or dirt into the magazine and AK will eat some **** mostly very well.

As will the G3, the G36 and others (which the HK433 is closely related to). Up to the point when they won't anymore. Just like an AK.
Those points are close. So close that the difference, if it exists at all, doesn't matter and is purely armchair-general-relevant.
The difference in precision isn't.

good on you for the respectful retort

I appreciate that as well. Just wanted to gauge the water.



[moderator edit - be nice and stay apolitical and on topic]

Sorry for bad English

I don't think you have to excuse your english. It's quite graspable what you want to convey.

 

[plaidsteel]

@German

In regards to you reply to me, your comments were

offhand - totally out of nowhere in an HK433 engineering talk and something no one else was talking about previously. And,

unrelated - having nothing to do with the topic of the 433 (unless you’d like to link those two thoughts)

If you think he’s wrong about the engineering behind the 433, then you said exactly that and that was enough. If there is some reason you think the current world events affect the 433, then say that. But, even in your reply, you did nothing of sort. You seem to be just disheartened by the current events; and they are, indeed, disheartening. But, we should separate that from this topic unless there is reason to link them.

But, that’s my opinion. The mods and you might disagree; that’s fine and I’ll leave it be. Also, do not take my comments (the previous or this one) as an attack; it contains no emotion.

 

[German]

But, we should separate that from this topic unless there is reason to link them.

Yeah, well. I disagree. [moderator response - If you disagree, sign up for a premium membership and post your comments in the appropriate sub-forum that deals with politics. You have that option. In this discussion, it's not germane. Respectfully offered ]

 

[BarnOwlLover]

Well, the 433 is in or soon will be in series production per HK. I assume that means there may be orders already or coming soon? Also might explain why the Grey Room in Columbus basically has a brand new 433 there already.

 

[Sam De Grote]

Is there a posibility to 'dual wield' the 433 charging handle?
So put one on the left and one on the right side? (of course adding more weight to the gun).
James didn't mention the changeble lower (AR style?).
Do you guys think the new budget (very recent) the German gouvernement gave to the military will 'move' something in the what gun to buy problems?
Maybe they've already ordered the HK 433?

 

[German]

Is there a posibility to 'dual wield' the 433 charging handle?

I asked some two years ago and the answer was "no" back then, but they thought about it.
I'll ask again tomorrow.

James didn't mention the changeble lower (AR style?).

"Changeable" as in "put on another lower"?

The mechanics of locking the magazine with the G36-type lever and an AR15-style push button differ so much I'd say that you need a different lower. I'll also confirm tomorrow.

Maybe they've already ordered the HK 433?

They surely haven't. I'm also not aware of any state police actually procuring the gun at the moment. I am in contact with at least one SEK that is looking into it (to be more precise: into the 437) but this is still in the (very) early stages.

That said, I'd still prefer the HK416 as the new service weapon, the primary reason being parts and training commonality with our european (France, Norway) and american partners.

Do you guys think the new budget (very recent) the German gouvernement gave to the military will 'move' something in the what gun to buy problems?
Maybe they've already ordered the HK 433?

More impact will have the result of the trial proceedings held this wednesday regarding Haenels claims. Depending on the outcome this could be a significant step towards clarification on who actually won the tender. We'll see, I'm pretty sure I will get some quick feedback on that.

But yes, the new budget (100 Billion Euros in special assets and a raise of the defense budget above the 2% of GDP limit (another 25-30 billions anually on top of the about 55 billions currently)) will surely also have an impact on HK. I would bet that there are talks taking place right now.

Although you guys may actually be a problem this time, as HK discovered the US market as a new core market with better margins than the military market. That's good for you and civilian HK fans, but it's not optimal for other things.
So there has to be a significant future outlook of long term contracts to justify considerable investments into new production facilities. The current location is almost bursting at it's seams and there is not much room for expansion. This has to be well considered.

 

[Sam De Grote]

Thanks 'German' for your information!
So jealous that you'll see it tomorrow. Even though Nuremberg is only a 7 hrs drive from my place (Belgium).
Can you ask for a (european) civillian version? And a 'release' date?