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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have an HK45 and was a bit annoyed with the trigger troth. This is the groove on the inside bottom of the trigger guard that the tip of the trigger travels in. When using +P ammo I could feel the troth/grove tap my trigger finger during recoil. A firm hold on the gun minimized this, but it was still there. I really didn't notice it when firing standard velocity loads.

This troth/groove was something that H&K added themselves to the design without consulting Larry Vickers or Ken Hackathorn, two of the people who generated the idea for this project. Larry & Ken did not like this added feature and suggested that HK not include it in the completed gun, which HK ignored. For whatever reason, HK did not include the troth/groove in the HK45C.

Anyway, I was sending my HK45 to Grayguns to have them install a set of nightsights (I choose the meprolite), and asked them how much it would cost to remove the trooth. I believe it was $90 for the gunsmithing to remove the troth/groove and smooth the magazine releases so they matched the contours of the new trigger guard.

I ran the same +P loads with the gun after getting it back and felt not contact with the bottom of the trigger guard during recoil. I could definitely have managed the gun without having the groove removed, but I like it much better this way.

Here is a picture of it after the work was done. I didn't think to take a before picture, but you can see it on any stock HK45.

 

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I had Bowie Tactical do the same to mine, as well as add a trigger overtravel stop. Made all the difference in the world. I will try and post pic
 

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I had Bowie Tactical do the same to mine, as well as add a trigger overtravel stop. Made all the difference in the world. I will try and post pic
Do you recall how much Bowie charges you to add a trigger stop screw? I was wondering if I could send them just the triggers (instead of the whole frame) and get the screw installed. This would allow me to have a real Match Trigger on my compacts. Thanks.
 

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Hi TooSixty,

Lemme see here.... Bowie Tactical Concepts Pictures Page

Here's a link to the P30 they show that had the work done, just scroll down it is like 5 pistols down on the right hand side.

The HK P30 to the left shows the full Vicker's Package, which includes trigger over travel stop, trigger guard trench removal, mag release radius and
360 grip stippling.

Cost for full pkg = $175.00

The overtravel stop is internal. There is no screw in the trigger like my combat competition. However, I have to say I love how the trigger feels and it breaks so cleanly it makes the trigger in my Combat Competition feel like a wet noodle. Now I shoot my HK.45 so much beter than my CC, its not even funny....

Every HK.45 I get is going straight to Bowie.
 

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I see. Thanks for the link and explanation.
I was hoping to get an overtravel stop screw drilled and tapped to a USP compact trigger.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Gray Guns offers the overtravel stop. I wanted to keep the gun as close to stock as possible. I have an HK45C that doesn't have the overtravel stop, so I wanted to keep this trigger as close as possible to that of my HK45C.
 

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When using +P ammo I could feel the troth/grove tap my trigger finger during recoil.
I shoot my P30 and HK45 have no issues with the trench in the trigger guard. I've seen other threads relating to the trough being problematic. The OP states he can feel the trough tap his trigger finger during recoil. Can someone explain this? I have fairly large hands. Would this be the reason I don't feel a "tap", what ever that is?
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
Apparantly it is an individual thing that some people experience and others don't.

As I said, I could have lived with it. We are very lucky in regards to the quality guns that are available to us.

I did not do a very good job of explaining it (or even spelling the word trough, which I spelled as troth)

For a better explanation, here is what Larry Vickers wrote on M4carbine.net:

"As many of you know I was a key player in the development of this pistol - overall I think it turned out well but frankly there where a few things that HK Oberndorf overlooked late in the final development of the pistol - this is mainly due to the fact that neither I nor Ken Hackathorn (who also helped with the design) was involved at that point but that is another story .....

The problem area involves the trigger guard/mag release/trigger overtravel area - there is some excessive overtravel which magnifies the fact that some edges and corners inside the trigger guard and the L shaped mag catch bite the trigger finger when you shoot the pistol - this affects approx 75% of the people who shoot the weapon; same goes for the HK P30 except it is not as bad with a 9mm vs a .45 - the HK 45 Compact is not really a problem as it was left in the same configuration as the prototype HK 45's with a P2000 style frame (which all things considered I wish the full size had been left alone but then again that is another story also....)

The good news is my bro David Bowie of Bowie Tactical Concepts (Bowie Tactical Concepts Home Page) - a polymer frame pistolsmith of the highest order - has done some mods that totally fix the problem

With my explanation of the problem areas and his efforts he has come up with a few critical mods that enhance the shootability of the pistol tremendously - every fullsize HK 45 should have this package - the 'Vickers HK 45 mods' for lack of a better term - they address the areas of the trigger guard/mag release/overtravel stop and basically fix what the factory did not."

Here is a link to the thread where Vickers discusses this:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=151649&highlight=bowie#post151649
 

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Discussion Starter #10
And here are more comments by Larry Vickers regarding the trough or groove in the trigger guard: pistol-training.com » HK45 Interview with Ken Hackathorn and Larry Vickers

"As it turns out, the grip is fine. It’s not a big deal. Where they ****’ed up royally — and with the P30, too — is the whole molded trough or groove in the trigger guard, combined with a lack of overtravel stop, combined with the shelf design of the ambi mag release. It leads to a situation for many people, myself included, when they fire the gun the gun torques and twists in their hands and bites the bottom edge of their trigger finger.

I had a prototype for a while and after shooting it, I called them and told them, “Dude, you need to fix this now. This is a real problem.” But they didn’t touch it. The Germans went into production with it. That has been the one thing … they ****’ed that up. Those were changes they got from the P30 without our input and carried it over to the full size HK45.

That’s why I went to [gunsmith David Bowie of Bowie Tactical Concepts] to do his modification, what he calls the Vickers Mod. He gets rid of the trough, does an internal overtravel stop (which also makes the trigger feel better), and rounds the edges on the paddle mag releases on the HK45 and P30. That does away with all the problems. It’s night and day in my book.

As it turns out, what they did to the grip was OK but the whole interface between the trigger guard and all that was wrong."
 

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The problem area involves the trigger guard/mag release/trigger overtravel area - there is some excessive overtravel which magnifies the fact that some edges and corners inside the trigger guard and the L shaped mag catch bite the trigger finger when you shoot the pistol - this affects approx 75% of the people who shoot the weapon
This. Sold my HK45T and P30 because of it. Love the HK45CT though. I bought another HK45T and going to try to modify the area. It would pinch the hell out of my finger though and after 80 or so rounds it was bright red and very sore. Sucks because when I hit the range its usually 200-300 rounds before I leave, first time I have ever left because a gun made my hand sore.
 

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This used to be a problem for me with my 9mm P30s. Now I don't even notice it. My 40 cal P30 is a different story though, and I'll probably have the removal done on that one. I shot an HK45 last year and it was the same way.
 

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I don't know: Has there ever been an instance where HK denied warranty coverage due to a modification that plainly had absolutely nothing to do with the problem?

E.g., broken extractor (let's say) after someone had modified this trigger trough.

?

Or do they have no reputation for doing business that way?
 
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