HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
HK45 vs. STI Spartan 45

Since the HK45 is constantly being compared to the 1911, I thought this would not be unfair. Thoughts? Comments? Opinions?

I can buy the Spartan for about $600. . . Is it a better deal than the HK45?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,404 Posts
Depends on how you define a 'better deal', yes this STI is lower in price.
The Spartan’s slide is made from extruded bar stock; the frame is cast. Forged frames like Colt are preferred, but the STI cast frame is hand fitted to the slide at STI, something NOT found on any mil-spec 1911. The sights and mags basically suck. You would need some better mags for sure, I use McCormick Power mags in all my Colt 1911's, including $3000+ customs, they all eat HP's like hogs with no failures of any kind into the thousands of rounds. CCW is a custom Colt Combat Commander.

Three things will choke a 1911, ammo, mags, and poor extractors not fitted right or not tensioned right. The STI is a hand fitted 1911 with bad sights and mags - toss in the price of a decent set of sights and new mags...the price climbs into $750+. I would also replace the poorly fitted nylon main spring housing with a steel serrated/checkered one - add another $30.
This particular 1911 vs. the HK45 - the H&K looks better to me. (I hate 1911 clones) ;)

*You make the call*
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,962 Posts
there was another post in this section a few days agao. It was posted by a die hard Colt 1911 guy. He seemed to think the HK45 was as it has been said before, an updated 1911.. Personally, I am not a die hard 1911 guy, I like them, just not obsessed with them...

take that for what it's worth...

here's the link:
http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71442
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
143 Posts
The Spartan isn't a bad gun...It's not as nice as the other STIs but it's also not $1500 and up. I have a very nice Brazos Custom 2011 limited gun I use in competition. It's a highly modified STI Edge. Nice gun. But it's still finicky on some things even after being tuned by one of the best gunsmiths in the world. You see a lot of 1911s at competitions but you see just how finicky and picky they can be. Even mags can be a nightmare.

I just bought an HK45 and love it. HK did a great job on this one. It was that or a Wilson Combat 1911 for my new carry/nightstand gun. I think I made a good decision.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
423 Posts
HK45 vs. STI Spartan 45

Since the HK45 is constantly being compared to the 1911, I thought this would not be unfair. Thoughts? Comments? Opinions?

I can buy the Spartan for about $600. . . Is it a better deal than the HK45?
If we are going to compare the 1911 to the new HK45 I don't think a full 5" barrel steel frame 1911 should be used as a Lightweight Commander would be closer to the HK45 in terms of the Commander's 4.25" barrel and 27 oz. weight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,404 Posts
I believe the mags are Novak. . . no good?
Eight-rounders made in Italy by ACT-Mag and now sold in the US under various companies’ marques, this design has developed a very bad reputation among serious shooters for its feed lips cracking after only a bit of use, and they have very fragile base plates.

STI claims they need to use the cheap mags to reach the 'price point' of the Spartan. I just purchased stainless 8 rnd McCormick Power Mag's from MidwayUSA on a sale for $16.99, reg price $21.99 - these mags are super tough, beautiful, and correctly engineered in 1911 feed profile with a three year replacement warranty. Not sure whose spring is used in the
McCormick Power Mag - its like a 10%+ Wolff. Heirloom Precision, formerly known as Yost-Bonitz and a number of other custom pistol smiths ship this same mag in their custom Colt 1911 costing from $2500---$4500. Lew Bonitz move to Montana, and build guns out there.
www.heirloomprecision.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
239 Posts
I have to agree that my $700 Springfield Loaded didn't run that smooth right out of the box. The HK, I can almost 100% guarantee you will, three of mine have digested whatever they're fed, except some junk Aguila Mexican Remington bum ammo in 40 cal. The 1911 mags were OEM, metalform or whoever makes them for Springfield and they belonged in the trash can, not packaged with my 45. If you want to do some tinkering and changing of parts, smoothing things out and plan to lay out some more dough possibly to a custom gunsmith, go with the 1911. If you want accuracy, durability, and reliability out of the box that will be a hard use weapon as is, then I vote for the HK 24/7.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Don't get me wrong. . . I love my HKs. . . but I've fired a few 1911s and I find myself yearning for that trigger system.

My understanding is that STI makes one of the best buttery-smooth, short, crisp trigger systems for 1911s. . .

Hey, how 'bout an HK45, but with an STI trigger system? I'm sorry to appear to complain, but I just think HK could do ALOT better with their trigger systems. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
OK, so Spartan would need (2) McCormick mags, plus decent sights in order to compete with the HK45. That should bring it up to maybe $740 or so ($600 + $40 for 2 mags + $100 for decent sights), and it would still be about $100 cheaper than the HK45.

So the question is: Would an STI Spartan, with McCormick mags and decent sights compare favorably with the HK45? Why? Why not?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,404 Posts
I wouldnt think it would still be on the same level as the HK45. Spartan is a mil-spec bargain 1911. The pistol would still need to ramped and throat to feed hp's, maybe a trigger job, and a reliability package -

*Reliability Package $195*
  • Polish and tune extractor
  • Furnish and install oversized firing pin stop
  • Throat barrel and polish ramps, true and polish breachface
  • Stake plunger tube, grip bushings, link and strut pin
  • Check ejector fit and function
  • Deburr and polish internal ways and tunnels
  • Crown and polish muzzle
  • Check and adjust barrel timing, headspace and safeties
  • Heavy duty recoil and firing pin springs
Colt 1991-A1 with 'Old Roll Marks' can be had for $600 all day long, at least then you would have a real 1911 thats higher quality than the Spartan as a base platform. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,970 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I wouldnt think it would still be on the same level as the HK45. Spartan is a mil-spec bargain 1911. The pistol would still need to ramped and throat to feed hp's, maybe a trigger job, and a reliability package -

*Reliability Package $195*
  • Polish and tune extractor
  • Furnish and install oversized firing pin stop
  • Throat barrel and polish ramps, true and polish breachface
  • Stake plunger tube, grip bushings, link and strut pin
  • Check ejector fit and function
  • Deburr and polish internal ways and tunnels
  • Crown and polish muzzle
  • Check and adjust barrel timing, headspace and safeties
  • Heavy duty recoil and firing pin springs
Colt 1991-A1 with 'Old Roll Marks' can be had for $600 all day long, at least then you would have a real 1911 thats higher quality than the Spartan as a base platform. ;)
You mean something more like this? http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86906405
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,404 Posts
Not Gold Cup's - standard Colt 1911 like these.
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86711399 (M1991-A1 Old Roll Mark Combat Commander / 4.25" barrel)

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=86787324
(M1991-A1 Old Roll Mark / 5" barrel)
*I have one identical to this one - runs like gang busters on Colt mags/no mods*

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=87025790
(M1991-A1 New Roll Mark / 5" barrel)

Or a Colt Series 70 re-issue - but youre gonna pay. :)

Very few stock mil-spec 1911 will run with the HK45...period. The polymer HK is a looser platform, its gonna eat/eject almost anything. 1911's are tighter fit with all steel, they want a short break in, and may or may not be fussy about ammo/mag combos - triggers can run anywhere from nice 4.5 with no work, to 6.5 and gritty. Colt lock work is hardest and best, it can be used on custom builds/trigger job, clones need all the lock work replaced cuz its soft/cheap, wont hold a trigger job.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Eight-rounders made in Italy by ACT-Mag and now sold in the US under various companies’ marques, this design has developed a very bad reputation among serious shooters for its feed lips cracking after only a bit of use, and they have very fragile base plates.

STI claims they need to use the cheap mags to reach the 'price point' of the Spartan. I just purchased stainless 8 rnd McCormick Power Mag's from MidwayUSA on a sale for $16.99, reg price $21.99 - these mags are super tough, beautiful, and correctly engineered in 1911 feed profile with a three year replacement warranty. Not sure whose spring is used in the
McCormick Power Mag - its like a 10%+ Wolff. Heirloom Precision, formerly known as Yost-Bonitz and a number of other custom pistol smiths ship this same mag in their custom Colt 1911 costing from $2500---$4500. Lew Bonitz move to Montana, and build guns out there.
www.heirloomprecision.com
I disagree completely with Kost's point on the ACT/Novak magazines.

In reality, they're probably some of the most trouble free mags to be had. They are FLAWLESSLY reliable, and I've NEVER had an issue with any of the 12+ Novak magazines I routinely use in my 1911s. They had a bad batch a while back, but Novak will replace them free of charge. Aside from that one incidental group of bad mags, they have a sterling reputation. Some top manufacturers actually include these mags with their high end 1911s. Nighthawk, STI are just a couple that come to mind. Not to mention the Full House custom guns from Novak.

I've used nearly every manufacturer's magazines and the ACT/Novak mags are tough to beat.

Another thing, Colt 1911s are highly over rated. Performance wise, several manufacturers turn out a MUCH better product. Colt relies on their rep more than anything. The best function for a Colt is a collector's item. Aside from that, most competing manufacturers turn out a better product for the money. AND... This is comming from a person who owns the "Cream of the Crop" from Colt's "Custom Shop."

Spartan is a mil-spec bargain 1911. The pistol would still need to ramped and throat to feed hp's, maybe a trigger job, and a reliability package -
My Special Combat needed more work than that just to run ball ammo.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
53 Posts
STIs

In my experience, as someone who was stupid enough to plunk down over $2k on an STI 2011: STI sucks.

Sent mine back three times. Still wouldn't feed ANY ROUNDS out of more than one of my 5 $50 mags.

Customer service is beyond horrible. The service manager & president (Dave something or another and he was rude as all get out on the phone) of the company both acted like I should kiss their butt just to have the pleasure to pay them two grand for a pistol that FTFs and stovepipes on Winchester white box hardball.


They're like: "Oh, but its an STI and so-and-so IPSC shooter uses one!!!!!"

UGH! So what! They give the IPSC guys one that runs.

I shoot in plate matches 3-4 times a month in the warm months, and many of the best shooters in the club have STIs.

Only after I bought mine did I find out all the guys at my club had to send them back 3 or 4 times to get them to work.

When's the last time you had to send an HK back a few times just to get it to fire a complete mag without malfunction?

never?

HKs will at least work.

STI couldn't care less about the quality of your pistol unless you've got their T-shirt on at the Steel Challenge.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
bradhenn,

Your experience is certainly the exception to the rule. If you're an HK fan, you should already be pretty well used to crummy service. Until HKI in Trussville AL took over, they pretty well set the standard for poor customer service.

I didn't have to pay anywhere near 2K on my Eagle, but it's been a flawless performer since day one. Over on the 1911forums STI has a pretty solid reputation for customer service. While I've not had any reason to contact STI due to problems with my pistol, I have had good input from them regarding accessories and the like. They're great people who stand behind their product.

My guess is if your last post was anything like your correspondence with their customer service, I can't say as I'd blame them for telling you where to get off. In the competitive circuit, you'll see FAR more STIs on the line than you'll ever see HK. That's just a simple fact.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,404 Posts
Between the HK45 and STI Spartan, you will be alot happier with the HK45.

I own more Custom Shop Colt's than factory pieces. Two are Colt Special Combat Government Model's done in hard chrome, one .38Super, one .45ACP, since new, neither has had one failure of any kind. I run hollow-points, lead semi-wad cutters and ball in both of them. The .45 even eats the Speer 200gr., that has a notorious reputation for choking a 1911.

My two STI 2011's rock, never owned one of their 1911's.

I dont see how you can go wrong with the HK45, its an amazing .45acp pistol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
569 Posts
+1 for the HK 45.... I've never owned or shot a 1911 but from these forums I can gather that any 1911 that you'll purchase for 600 is only going to break your heart. Get the HK45 unless your going to fork over 2k for the 1911.

Just MO. If your want something specific, get it in the best of quality. Plus my HK45 has had 350 through it (Winclean, WWB, Remington, magtech) and has never had any problem to date.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
STI SUCKS!

They screwed me over bad and finally reply was "They had to much money into my pistol and would not fix it"! They broke it! I posted this a while back on 1911 forum.

I got it (LS40) a year ago and after a few hundred rounds the feed ramp on the barrel developed a burr and caused jams. I sent it in for repair. They said they would upgrade it with all the new features. When I got it two months later they deactivated my slide stop! I when to shoot the pistol and it just jammed and failed to extract. The accuracy was so bad that the sight had to be move all the way to the right just to hit the target at 30'. I sent it back to Chris for repair. They placed another new barrel and the reblued the pistol and fixed the slide stop. After another month I received it back and took it to the range. It ran fine for 200 rounds with no problem. My friend looked at the grips and noticed a chip taken out of the grip and when I took them off the grip was cracked down the middle. I have to qualify with this pistol this weekend and I don't think I will be able to (at the time I was working with a private security company) . I have to call Chris today. I was just shooting and the slide stop just broke! Now I am really pissed. I wasted my dam money on this piece of crap. I have been using my P7M8 for 15 years and never had a problem. I thought of retiring the P7M8. I don't think I will. I am going to trade or sell my STI LS40 as soon as it is fixed.


I sent back to them for a total of four times and never go it fixed. Chris explained to me they shaved down my rails to change the timing on the pistol to make it more reliable. The pistol was already extremely reliable. The pistol continued to malfunction and the accuracy never improved. After, a dozen slide stops not one worked like the original. I settled on one that was deactivated. Chris actually told me they had to much money into it and said they would not fix it. I eventually took a loss on the pistol and sold it off.

I sold it to a pistol smith for half of what I paid for it. In my book STI can go take a crap in there hat.

Here it is years later and I still have my P7M8 and have been trying to find a replacement. I have been going back and forth between my G19 and P2000SK
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top