[fifthward]

Went shooting with a cousin in these neck of the woods...and I learned something about my shooting today...

I suck when I try to shoot LEM fast.

When I shoot, taking my time with LEM...I focus, stage the trigger, breathe, pull straight back - and I knock out the 10 ring.

We basically had a target out 10 yards, that had (5) - 6" targets on it - and went to town on shooting the 5 targets in any sequence. I was surprised how off target I was, sometimes a good 6" off each target, especially how accurate I was when I shooting slow. I was basically telling my cousin, and myself, that I move from target to target fast, and my mechanics are out the window once I get the sight picture. But I feel there's more to it..due to the LEM trigger.

I recall reading some pointers on another pistol forum :wink: that basically centered around shooting LEM, and not staging, but instead releasing and pulling thru the trigger. If this is true (for some) do you release fully after each shot, or use the reset? Also, I think I'd slap/jerk the light LEM trigger.

Any advice is welcome from the HKpro community...even those that say "get training"...or "use the search function"...:100000:

Thanks

 

[Apollo11]

The LEM is a different beast to shoot fast splits with. I use the P30L in the L LEM configuration for my IPSC gun and admit that there is a learning curve to it. I tend to "row" the trigger straight through the stroke in order to get the best results. There is no other way to shoot fast other than pulling the trigger fast, resetting and repeating. In doing so you will need to give up on the perfect break of the shot. The trigger will get jerked, your job in shooting fast is to be able to see the sights lift and call the shot. This is the only way to ensure you have complete control of the pistol.

Seeing the sights lift through the shot, and being able to call it is not an easy task; it must be learned. Your speed should be driven by your vision, and what you can see and how fast you can see it. Your eyes are your gas pedal. If you go faster than you can see, there will be uncontrolled shots flying down range.

The LEM can be shot fast, but in order to do so you have to put it all together and be aware of what the gun is doing. This is an abstract concept, but my time with the LEM in competition has proven it for me.

PM me if you want some excellent reading on the concepts above.

 

[nyeti]

I am transitioning to the light and TLG LEM on my guns now. The last couple of training sessions with my shooting partner were interesting. I am a little slower with the LEM gun, but I am getting a good "pace". Keep in mind my training partner is an exceptional shooter (was a Vickers instructor and holds a FAST coin), so running close is fine. He and I are in agreement that the TLG LEM is probably the best "street trigger" out there for L/E handling people at gun point. Friday I noticed that if I don't push to hard and find a solid sweet spot for moving my trigger finger, I can really run the gun well. I find that I roll through the initial press and then get a quick confirmation before the final press on the trigger (rapid staging) when I am looking for accuracy. At speed I tend to try to develop a consistent movement that is smooth all the way through the trigger. THis is a lot like how I shot a revolver back in the day.

 

[Rocket]

More training :wink:

I haven't converted all my Hk's to LEM yet, only my Hk45c. I love the light LEM, but find I need more practice with it...and I think I should be running it exclusively at the range without bringing my DA/SA Hk's with me. I'm in the same boat my friend...Anything beyond double taps gets me way off target. Finding that sweet spot in the break is tough when trying to get through all 8 rds. Not a very informative post, but just so you know...I'm with you on this.

 

[fifthward]

Thanks Rocket...man I felt like 2 different shooters. Slow and steady, I was nailing it down. I noticed that I did fair better when I didn't grip too hard with my right dominant hand, instead gripping slightly more with my left - and focused on the trigger and front sight.

This really has me thinking that I should be practicing with what I'm carrying - and going with the 45c exclusively. I was shooting yesterday with my full size HK45...and although it has the same light LEM and Heinie sights as my 45c...I wonder if it is different enough to make a difference in shooting?

 

[fifthward]

BTW...

I am humbled by the amount of info on shooting LEM with speed...simply by using the search function.

Thanks HKPro

 

[Jupiter]

Morning Fifthward

I purchased a P-2000 LEM .40 several years back. The trigger felt really good at the gun store.
As long as I kept things slow, I thought the LEM trigger was great. Shooting at speed, not so much.
For me, it would take too much time and effort to just catch up to what I could already do with a DA/SA.
It was just not worth it to me. I ended up selling it and buying the V3 DA/SA version of the same pistol.
It felt like I was having to work much harder to get decent split times. It just wasn't a natural shooter for me like a 1911,Glock,Walther PPQ or even a DA/SA HK.
To be fair, I have never tried the Light LEM. I've heard alot of good things about them.
The beauty of the HK45c is the fact it can be converted back to DA/SA if it doesn't work out.
Either way, you have an outstanding weapon. With some dedication, i'm sure you'll master any trigger system you choose.


,

 

[majette]

it's all about training. not about shooting the lem at speed per se but check it out, hybrid lem.

 

[RHINOWSO]

Is it different? Yes, but I find that I hit the reset and pull again - remember if you are shooing for speed, accuracy is gonna suffer to a degree.

 

[Darebear]

remember if you are shooing for speed, accuracy is gonna suffer to a degree.

Truth!

Fifth, I applaud you for being humble enough to ask for help. If it's any consolation I still outshoot my USPf LEM with my USPc DA/SA. The LEM is a commitment, awesome trigger but def a commitment. I think alot of the rheotoric makes it seem like the LEM is a magic trigger that is easy (or easier than other guns) to master, it's not. I wish you well in your continued training and practice.

 

[Noncentsical]

majette... There's a preowned-maybe-unfired USP9SD near me at a decent price... I'm sooooo close to buying it and doing exactly what you did to yours.
In fact, I just won a jet funnel kit auction. lol

 

[majette]

majette... There's a preowned-maybe-unfired USP9SD near me at a decent price... I'm sooooo close to buying it and doing exactly what you did to yours.
In fact, I just won a jet funnel kit auction. lol

do it! the hybrid lem makes the lem system better. i am not a fan of tall suppressor sights, i just superimpose the can over the target and place the sights where i want the bullet to impact.

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

Usually I am all about the "training" answer but not in this case. What are you trying to accomplish at speed, Fifth? My personal opinion is that LEM sucks at competition and was designed to provide consistency in trigger manipulation for those who don't shoot often. Then the light LEM came along to try to make the LEM something that it is not. Fast.

It is not you dude, LEM is slow. Yes TLG was successful with the LEM but who has 92,000 rounds at our disposal to get there?

 

[fifthward]

Usually I am all about the "training" answer but not in this case. What are you trying to accomplish at speed, Fifth? My personal opinion is that LEM sucks at competition and was designed to provide consistency in trigger manipulation for those who don't shoot often. Then the light LEM came along to try to make the LEM something that it is not. Fast.

It is not you dude, LEM is slow. Yes TLG was successful with the LEM but who has 92,000 rounds at our disposal to get there?

Well...what started it was my cousin (wife's cousin's husband actually)- shoots bowling pins every wednesday with members at this range on the outskirts of Atlanta. So, he has his friend's property where he sets them up, and knocks them down - at a distance of 10 yards. Well - I plan on joining him soon on the property - and I want to "hang" at least.

Short answer - I want to be able to hit bowling pins fast...
Deeper answer - I want to be able to hit vitals fast, if needed in a self defense situation.

Is that too much to ask with my 45c LEM?

BTW...GT - do you use DA/SA in your matches?

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

No, I upgraded.

 

[fifthward]

No, I upgraded.

Let me guess...still German...similar paddle mag release?

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

Yep.

 

[fifthward]

Yep.

I hate you right now.

 

[gtmtnbiker98]

I hate you right now.

Damn, why?

 

[fifthward]

Because I'm spontaneous by nature...and you planted a seed. Straight Inception style.
Now I will be weighing gun/caliber options for the next 4 days.