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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Who likes their HK 93?
I have a HK93 German gun, with about all the accessories.....
It has both a fixed and collabsible stock, an ARMS quick release for the sight, leather strap, bipod, and many magazines. Problem is....I am unimpressed with the accuracy so far. This rifle is heavy, a bit cumbersome, and compared to my AR, seriously inaccurate. I am not being biased, just honest.
So far I have tried 40, 45, 55, 68 grain ammo, and non compare to the AR.

The lighter stuff just doesn't work in this gun.....the twist rate must be about 1 in 9 to 1 in 12, since the 55 gr. 5.56 ammo works best. My Cooper rifle with 1-14 twist loves 40-45gr ammo (.45" groups), but the HK, although best with the 55gr, groups only about 2" at 100 yds. My AR groups .8" at the same distance and is lighter and easier to use.

Am I missing something?

Terry
 

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Just a difference between animals is all. Most (but not all) 33/53/93 barrels are 1:12 rotation and like the lighter bullets more.
Two inches is great combat rifle accuracy, IMHO. Your AR is shooting more like a target rifle. What brand is it?
Remember, HK roller guns were designed to be built as quickly and cheaply as possible, hence all the stampings and plastic parts. Most AR's, even lesser models, are built with much closer tolerances and will trend on the tighter side of accuracy.
Don't be disappointed in your 93, love it for what it is. Try not to compare it to an AR because from the design table to the field they are different animals with only a common caliber between them.
Also, keep in mind the HK33SG1. Common, off the line rifles that shot a bit better than the others, paired with a scope and mount right from the factory. The platform can be a great shooter. Just a matter of luck here.
As a side note I have a clone 33k built by IGF that shoots Black Hills moly coated 50gr JHP five rounds to an inch at 100 yards. Open sighted. And that's with an old Malasian surplus barrel.

Something you may look for is potential problems with your gun. Look for barrel crown problems. Bolt gap and roller wear. Is the hand guard touching the barrel somehow? Is the rear sight tight? How's the trigger, nice and smooth or a real grunter? How do you support the weapon? Some guns like to be held firmly while others like to be able to recoil. What condition are your mags in? Are they damaging the rounds as they feed?
Obviously any of these will affect accuracy but I'd not be suprized to find nothing really wrong with the gun

Maybe some of this will help. As far as liking the gun, well, mine is a clone and I love it. A friend of mine has a german gun and he loves his even though his AR's regularly outshoot it.
 

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I've found over the years, that 93's seem to really vary in accuracy, unlike the all the 91's I've had. I had a couple tack-drivin' 93's......then a couple that were disappointing. Old/production guns..... go figure.:rolleyes:
 

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It isn't a "real" HK, but my V93 has repeatedly put 10 rounds in an inch with my girlfriend shooting it. This is 55 grain Hornady bullets, 24.5 grains of Ramshot TAC, mixed brass and CCI military primers. It is a tack driver.

Now. If only it would shoot like that for me. Clearly, Vector engineered frustration into the rifle for the likes of me.
 

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Tack driver, able to hit 1" diameter 'reactive targets' at all ranges with just about first shot accuracy. That's saying a lot when you get the benefit of a BOOM! for your actions.

I love my HK33E, and recommend them as sear hosts to others, too.

 

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hk 20 years ago would routinly guarantee 2moa on 9x series rifles...the 9x series are not sniper rifles (ok i know this is a can of worms)..for me...as long as i am close i am happy...
 

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I see by your post you have never been in the mud

@ 0'dark:30 with an M16 after an all night monsoon. Or you woould kmnow tha answer to your own question. minute of NVA is all you need as long as it will shoot.



MJ
'67/'68
The Highlands
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
do you like 93

Two inches is great combat rifle accuracy, IMHO. Your AR is shooting more like a target rifle. What brand is it?
Re.
My AR is an Armalite with Jewel trigger.....it is amazing...
Checked all areas on HK you suggested, seem OK. Just feels crude compared to the AR...heavy, poor trigger,and inaccurate.....I am used to rifles shooting 1/2" @ 100yds. In fact, my 460 magnum revolver, sandbagged (rested) can shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. Why should I carry a heavy rifle?
I am tempted to sell the 93, but have so many accessories, may be tough to sell and not loose a bunch.
Terry
 

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My AR is an Armalite with Jewel trigger.....it is amazing...
Checked all areas on HK you suggested, seem OK. Just feels crude compared to the AR...heavy, poor trigger,and inaccurate.....I am used to rifles shooting 1/2" @ 100yds. In fact, my 460 magnum revolver, sandbagged (rested) can shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. Why should I carry a heavy rifle?
I am tempted to sell the 93, but have so many accessories, may be tough to sell and not loose a bunch.
Terry
Let me know what you have to sell.
 

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My AR is an Armalite with Jewel trigger.....it is amazing...
Checked all areas on HK you suggested, seem OK. Just feels crude compared to the AR...heavy, poor trigger,and inaccurate.....I am used to rifles shooting 1/2" @ 100yds. In fact, my 460 magnum revolver, sandbagged (rested) can shoot 2" groups at 100 yds. Why should I carry a heavy rifle?
I am tempted to sell the 93, but have so many accessories, may be tough to sell and not loose a bunch.
Terry
As HKSHOOTERUSP said, they are two completely different animals. You need to appreciate the HK93 for what it is... a durable combat rifle that was designed to be built quickly and inexpensively.

Prior to all the U.S. legislation banning the import of assault rifles, you could buy an HK93 for around $400. AR's back then sold in the $600-$700 range. AR's are simply a more precisionly made rifle.

Can you get an HK93 to shoot 1" groups at 100 meters? Sure, but probably not with a factory gun.

Consider the AK-47. It's a crude inexpensive weapon. What's its attraction? Well I would think it's proven durability and for the collector, a remarkable history.

The HK93 has it's own history dating back to the G3. If what you're really after is a precision shooter then you've found it in your AR... as many precison semi-autos are built on the AR platform. Appreciate the 9x series for what it is and don't expect more than what it was designed to deliver.

You're saying it's not a genuine HK so there no real "collectors" value in it... it's more of a shooter to the HK buff but I'm sure you'd have no problems finding a buyer on here should you decide to part with it.
 

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If you are wanting a rifle with AR accuracy then the 93 isn't really the rifle for you IMO. If you want a rifle that functions reliably even in extremely adverse conditions with combat accuracy then the 93 is the better choice. Again, IMO.

I know that a lot of people think an HK93 rifle is heavy but I don't really get that. :confused: My rifle with a loaded 30 round steel mag weighs in a 9.2 lbs. The Colt M16A2 weighs in at 0.7 lbs. less. (from Colts specs M16A2 - 8.5 lbs loaded) Anyways, I don't notice the weight and I'm just a little guy at 5'8" and 145 lbs. Go figure! :D
 

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If the originator of this thread decides to sell his rifle, please keep me in mind for a couple of 30 round magazines.
 

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So when did this become the AR board?
so you like your AR. Gee it only took 50 years to fix to a point it is still only a safe queen and target rifle. Troops are still picking up AK's and SOF is still using HK's.
Been there done that.

MJ
'67/'68
76Y20
Dak To
Kontum
RVN

 

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I am tempted to sell the 93, but have so many accessories, may be tough to sell and not loose a bunch.
Terry
If you're serious about wanting to keep your 93 I would suggest that you let Bill Springfield do some trigger work for you.
If you want to sell then I would think you should be able to move it- 93s are very popular items. If you sell the accessories separately you have a better chance of not loosing money.
 

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Unless you've paid way too much for your Hk93 and accessories, you shouldn't take a huge hit. The accessories will sell well here. Just post a WTS thread and wait. They'll probably be gone before long.

I'd suggest selling the rifle first and offering accessories to the buyer. Then if the buyer didn't want them, sell the accessories seperate.

Good luck with your decision. The Hk93 is a more reliable weapon than the AR. In guns, reliability is first and foremost before any other attribute. Without it, it won't make any difference wether the rifle is accurate or not. Unless you are only into target shooting which is where your AR might win in this field. All of my Hk93's though shoot pretty accurately though (the one's I've fired anyway).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
As HKSHOOTERUSP said, they are two
You're saying it's not a genuine HK so there no real "collectors" value in it... it's more of a shooter to the HK buff but I'm sure you'd have no problems finding a buyer on here should you decide to part with it.
In fact, my HK IS the REAL DEAL... It is a German gun, and I bought it NIB some time ago....
You are absolutely correct. The guns are very different animals. I guess I like the AR better, but I am hearing what you guys are saying. I am a real precision kind of guy (did electron microscopy for 25 years), and when shooting firearms, like bullseye as much as IPSC. .
As far as rifles, I am a relative newby....I have been shooting pistols competitively for 20 years..in recent years S&W Performance Center guns, which are superbly accurate.
Terry
 

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............... I am a real precision kind of guy (did electron microscopy for 25 years), and when shooting firearms, like bullseye as much as IPSC.....
Small world, were you working on TEM's or SEM's (I have been "playing" with SEMs for 30 years during my day job ;-).

For real precision I still like a nice bolt gun (have to work way too hard on the AR's to get the last fraction of a MOA).

While your standard HK9X will typically never be a consistent sub-MOA gun, there are a few options to getting a little more accuracy out of them:

1: For paper punching, most of us need to get a better trigger, either a trigger job as per the previous poster or a nice PSG trigger pack.

2: When shooting for groups a nice scope always helps. Not sure of the accessories, however, if you are using the HK mount, a SG1 like stock with a raised comb, helps to get a good face weld when shooting.

3: The 93 that you are shooting is a few years old and while you got it new in the box, the bore could easily not have been broken in yet and/or you have copper). Would recommend a good cleaning to remove the copper and carbon residue. Would use a bore guide, good cleaning rod, something to remove the carbon residue (Kroil works nice or possible MPro7) and alternate with something to remove the copper (at least as strong as Shooters Choice or Hoppies Bench Rest ... only use Sweets 7.62 or similar if you really need it and are familiar with it's usage ... plus I am starting to like Eliminator better now days, but that is a different thread for the non-HK 50 BMG boards). Even with the HK hammer forged barrels, have a clean barrel with a few fowling shoots can help. Note, you should also remove the flash hider and carefully clean the muzzle face and flash hider.

4: You really need to be shooting good ammo. And this can be an issue as the default factory ammo to start with for accuracy for many of us is typically Federal Gold Metal Match (GGM) - however - GGM is loaded with a 69 grain bullet, which in turn is too heavy for most HK93's 1 in 12 twist (a few are faster and most often have a s/n starting in 42). I got a lead years ago from here to try the Federal AE (red box) FMJ ammo and that has worked ok over the years for me .... however ... still not a sub MOA gun.

One of the nice options of the HK 90 series is that you can move you NFA trigger packs (aka auto sear mounted in a trigger pack) between the various host guns .... which is inverse of precision shooting, but a good use for a worn HK until time comes to hammer out the old barrel and push in a new barrel.

Lastly, if you are not happy with your HK, would recommend you moving it to someone who can give it a better home, as there is limited number of HK but nearly an unlimited number of ARs ... at least until next November ;-(.
 

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Dont forget that the 93 is a piece of history. The gun itself is old technology yes, and there are better designs. Hk is even switching over to the piston ar. Mine shoots very well with the right ammo. Just like with any rifle you may have to match the bullet to the gun. The gun itself is tough, reliable and easy to shoot. Yes it is heavy, but that is the price you pay for the durable German steel. No matter what it is still a collectable to the average HK Nut.
 

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Mine is a sub moa gun. It really likes 52gr Match, but will keyhole 77gr. The psg1 trigger pack will not work with the subcaliber device. I think I have every accessory for it, except a Hensoldt calibrated in 5.56...


Shot at 2005-09-01
 
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