[HKPRO]

And the Army is unimpressed with the results.

Piston wins. Army cares not.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_carbine_dusttest_071217/

 

[Gocad]

*Gasp*

What a surprise! (Not.)

 

[rohardi]

THe M4 had almost 4X the number of stoppages as the 416!!!! And 7 times the number of stoppages as the XM8..... With leadership like this in our millitary, It shocks me that we can win a war!!!!

 

[Scider]

I personally carried an M4 and I NEVER ONCE had a stoppage of any kind for seven months and 100+ combat missions.

There's a lot more to consider than the amount of stoppages you get when you fire 15,000 rounds through a rifle. Without details like how long it went from initial lubrication to the first stoppage etc. it really detracts from teh whole study. If an M4 can go through a thousand rounds before the heat and carbon cause a stoppage than what's the problem? That's five combat loads of ammo!

Another aspect could be the fact that the entire military has just been retrofitted with the M16A4 and the M4 with rail system at considerable cost. I doubt you'll see much movement towards a superior weapon with a higher production cost because of a stoppages count.

 

[ironchef]

And the Army is unimpressed with the results.

Piston wins. Army cares not.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/12/army_carbine_dusttest_071217/

I'm not surprised by either result.

 

[Stryker_Radar]

Not surprised.

Like some of you on this board I have carried both the M16A2 and M4 in combat. I have never had my service weapon fail me in over 34 months of combat combined. A lot of the snoop and poopers and 3 letter agencies carry the HK. No doubt about it, great gun but I have no argument with Colt. It served me well with an ACOG mounted on top and it is a devastating weapon to the insurgents. So much so, the enemy will do just about anything to get a hold of one.

Not sure what Rohardi meant by the comment “With leadership like this in our military, It shocks me that we can win a war!!!!”... Maybe I am sensitive to comments about our military since I just returned back from Iraq after 15 months (3rd tour) with the Army's First Stryker BDE and live in the land of the “Greener Liberal.” In order to change over the Army to a new weapon system would be a monumental task at this point not to mention the fact that Colt has many friends in Congress. But “our leadership” has us pointed in the right direction in Iraq. We are winning in Iraq and if I do it with a Colt M4 in my hands, so be it.

 

[GONIF]

we will be out of there B4 the army is able to adopt a new weapon . we should have the best weapon we can field regardless of cost ,and the sooner the better. the M16 worked fine for me in the jungle in 1972 ,but it's time has come and gone and we need to give our troops a better weapon ASAP.

 

[S197Shelby]

Very interesting results. But I agree with many here. I have trained with an M4 and M16 and had only one or two stoppages that were most likely magazine related. I do think the M16 family is nearing the end of its use. But I agree with the Army decision. If they are going to spend the money on a new weapon they want a NEW WEAPON. Not an improvement on an existing system. I think what this tells them is piston driven weapons will be even more reliable than the existing systems and gives them an idea of what to incorporate when R&D gets some spending money from congress.

 

[GZire]

Interesting news, thanks for sharing.

 

[WSUXJer]

I'm not surprised by either result.

x2

...Maybe I am sensitive to comments about our military since I just returned back from Iraq after 15 months (3rd tour) with the Army's First Stryker BDE and live in the land of the “Greener Liberal.” In order to change over the Army to a new weapon system would be a monumental task at this point not to mention the fact that Colt has many friends in Congress. But “our leadership” has us pointed in the right direction in Iraq. We are winning in Iraq and if I do it with a Colt M4 in my hands, so be it.

which unit?

 

[MONEY]

Hopefully this means us civilians will get our 416 & 417 quicker since HK will not need to fill millitary orders.

 

[nuc_squid]

Hopefully this means us civilians will get our 416 & 417 quicker since HK will not need to fill millitary orders.

Haha optimism! I like it. How much are these things going to cost again? Guess I'll start saving nickels ...

 

[F22_RaptoR]

60,000 rounds through each.

• XM8: 127 stoppages.

• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages.

• 416: 233 stoppages.

• M4: 882 stoppages.


Seems the XM8 is really a good design, i bet it wont make a difference tho. Still, look at the M4's stoppages compared to the 416.

I think the M4 was something like, a 1 in 68 chance of jamming :O

of course your not ever going to be firing a tenth of that in one sitting. The M4 is a good weapon, but it just goes to show that its not designed for SAND and very dirty environments.

 

[Jason R]

Scar looks nice.

I was under the impression that there are some units in the military with 416s?

 

[DuceAnAHalf]

Scar looks nice.

I was under the impression that there are some units in the military with 416s?

from the link

The Army’s Delta Force replaced its M4s with the H&K 416 in 2004 after tests revealed that the piston operating system significantly reduces malfunctions while increasing the life of parts. The elite unit collaborated with the German arms maker to develop the new carbine.

 

[hkshooterusp]

I've never carried the gun in combat so I won't pretend I know all about it.
But what I and a friend of mine did do was shoot his Colt AR in matches about every other weekend and practiced with it every weekend of the match season. We purposely never cleaned it for the entire season which lasted from about the last snow of winter until the first snow of the next winter. The gun never failed.
I will say, however, there was not a single parts gun or home build AR that made it the whole season without a malfunction of some sort, many of them not making it through a single match without some sort of problem.

The design seems to work good and seems to be reliable providing it's a factory built gun. I can't deny that even though I'm a bigger fan of the piston design. My biggest problem with the gun is the caliber. I find it interesting that one of the above posters said the gun was "devastating" to the enemy. Seems there have been a fair amount of reports to the contrary.

 

[MP5_smg]

• XM8: 127 stoppages.

• MK16 SCAR Light: 226 stoppages.

• 416: 233 stoppages.

• M4: 882 stoppages.

Why does the 416 have more stoppages than the SCAR and the XM8? It seem like the XM8 is the best out of the bunch.

 

[Weirdguy]

Why does the 416 have more stoppages than the SCAR and the XM8? It seem like the XM8 is the best out of the bunch.

The XM8 got less stoppages then the others because of the new (better) magazine. SCAR and 416 were pretty close.

 

[Blast]

I think they just want to stay American (and money), there is more to this deal then just the performance of these rifles.

 

[nbell13]

Replacing the M4 is what would make sense. This is why it won't be done. I spent 3 years in the Army and very rarely are things that make sense done.