[Hogrydr]

I have tried the search and advanced search with no luck finding the answer to this question ....although I remember it being discussed but cant find the threads ....

I have a Vollmer converted MP 5 with a registered Quality manf. sear ....on the form 4 all three calibers are listed in 4c for the sear...and in 4h it states the rec # it is installed in.........

My question is what do I need to do to satisfy any NFA requirements to use this sear in the two host guns I have ....Vector 53P and a Vector 51P ????? Thanks in advance for any info ... this forum has been great to see and learn about HK's .....Jim

 

[Coronelli]

Do a search here, SBR the gun and then divorce the sear.

 

[Hogrydr]

Thanks I'll give that a try .....Jim

 

[retrodog]

Yep, that would be a great thing to do. Lots of host guns after that.

 

[TurboSVT]

Do a search here, SBR the gun and then divorce the sear.

Is it possible to send the complete firearm to a SOT to have converted/sbr'ed and the sear sent back quickly? I have a sear that is married to a host (barrel less than 16") and want to send it off for a full conversion. I was thinking it would be easier to just have it sent off (and wait) and have the sear sent back quickly. Is this possible?

 

[retrodog]

Is it possible to send the complete firearm to a SOT to have converted/sbr'ed and the sear sent back quickly? I have a sear that is married to a host (barrel less than 16") and want to send it off for a full conversion. I was thinking it would be easier to just have it sent off (and wait) and have the sear sent back quickly. Is this possible?

No. If the sear is married to the gun, you can't use it with any other gun till the new sear form 4 is approved and returned.

 

[Shattered Mind]

No. If the sear is married to the gun, you can't use it with any other gun till the new sear form 4 is approved and returned.

Ummm... you mean Form 1 for the SBR... you don't get a new Form 4. You get a letter.

 

[TurboSVT]

No. If the sear is married to the gun, you can't use it with any other gun till the new sear form 4 is approved and returned.

Thanks....sending the paperwork in today to sbr the rifle and will wait to send it out.

 

[Hogrydr]

Do a search here, SBR the gun and then divorce the sear.

...I did the search using your suggestion and found enough reading to last till midnight last night and a couple hours this morning !!!!! But I think I've got it ....The MP 5 I purchased... in 1997 is listed in 4h on form 4 along with the serial number of the receiver (with no mods) and a 8.9 inch barrel ... That makes it a married sear and if I remove the sear then the weapon becomes a SBR....So I am going to form 1 the MP 5 and after the form one gets back engrave the MP 5 and carry a copy of the form 1 with the form 4 when I use the sear in my host guns .....question is now ...if after I have done the above and have the sear in one of the host guns that is a pistol (V53 or V51) can I in stall the collaspible stock from the MP five while using the host gun and transfer the stock back when sear is removed to the MP 5 ??????Or do I need to SBR both the V 53p and the V 51p ?????

 

[Shattered Mind]

After you divorce the sear from the MP5 clone and SBR it, you can leave a stock on it... the two Vector pistols can only have the stocks on them WHILE the sear is in them. To simplify things, when you go shooting, take the trigger packs out of the pistols and leave them at home. Put trigger packs in separate baggies and include a post-it note as to which gun it came out of... keeps things nice & neat. Remove the ejectors and painter's tape them (no goo) to the pistols original handgrip. Just take the Vector pistols and handgrips with ejectors to the shoot. When you are done playing in 9mm, pop the pack out, change the ejector to whatever caliber you want to use next, reassemble the pack into the hosts ORIGINAL grip frame, reassemble the gun and enjoy. Take longer to read it than to actually do it.

Don't get into the habit of leaving unmarked HK parts scattered on the bench. Try to keep each guns parts in the same gun. Putting the Vector V-51 trigger box into the MP5 may work... but it also may not. That can lead to very hard to figger out headaches.

 

[Hogrydr]

Thanks haven't talked with you in a while !!!!

Gut beraten! Vielen Dank haben und ich mit Ihrem Beitrag online und sie sind immer informativ oder lustig!!!!

 

[scottinthegrove]

Is it possible to send the complete firearm to a SOT to have converted/sbr'ed and the sear sent back quickly? I have a sear that is married to a host (barrel less than 16") and want to send it off for a full conversion. I was thinking it would be easier to just have it sent off (and wait) and have the sear sent back quickly. Is this possible?

No. If the sear is married to the gun, you can't use it with any other gun till the new sear form 4 is approved and returned.

My limited understanding is that the answer "retro" has given is incorrect. I received my Fleming sear just as you have, installed in a Vollmer converted 94. The "married" part has to do with the configuration of the Title I firearm that the sear is installed in. It is not a restriction of the sear's registration so much as the Vollmer converted 94 would not be legal by itself. So removal of the sear from a rifle with a barrel less than 16" would make that rifle an unregistered SBR. The HK94 was imported as a rifle. As such, a rifle has to have a 16" barrel. My understanding is you have three options:

1)File a Form 1 and wait for approval. I did not notify the NFA Branch that my Vollmer converted 94 was no longer married to my Fleming sear after my Form 1 was approved. I do keep a copy of my approved Form 1 with the copy of my sear's Form 4 so it is easy to see that my HK94 is unencumbered. I never received a new Form 4 without the HK94 information on it.

2)Send the complete firearm to a Manufacturer for "repair". He files a Form 2 and your HK94 enters the NFA Registry as a SBR. I would think it would be prudent to wait until the HK94 has actually been entered into the registry before shipping the sear back to you. If the manufacturer is in another state, he can still transfer the SBR directly back to you. A letter, in addition to the standard Form 4 paperwork, explaining that the HK94 is owned by you, so there is no change in ownership, and that the manufacturer simply changed the configuration of the HK94.

3)Add a permanent barrel extension making the HK94's barrel over 16". To be prudent, I'd write a letter to your examiner informing the NFA Branch that the HK94 is in Title I configuration. I'd send that letter registered mail and I'd keep a copy of it with the copy of your sear's Form 4. You could then leave the HK94 as is, or send in a Form 1.

Of course this information is worth exactly what you paid for it. This is just my understanding of how and why a married sear can be divorced from a rifle host with a barrel less than 16". I'm not a lawyer, although I did play one on stage. Good luck with both of your sear divorcing projects.

Scott

 

[retrodog]

My limited understanding is that the answer "retro" has given is incorrect. I received my Fleming sear just as you have, installed in a Vollmer converted 94. The "married" part has to do with the configuration of the Title I firearm that the sear is installed in. It is not a restriction of the sear's registration so much as the Vollmer converted 94 would not be legal by itself. So removal of the sear from a rifle with a barrel less than 16" would make that rifle an unregistered SBR. The HK94 was imported as a rifle. As such, a rifle has to have a 16" barrel. My understanding is you have three options:

1)File a Form 1 and wait for approval. I did not notify the NFA Branch that my Vollmer converted 94 was no longer married to my Fleming sear after my Form 1 was approved. I do keep a copy of my approved Form 1 with the copy of my sear's Form 4 so it is easy to see that my HK94 is unencumbered. I never received a new Form 4 without the HK94 information on it.

2)Send the complete firearm to a Manufacturer for "repair". He files a Form 2 and your HK94 enters the NFA Registry as a SBR. I would think it would be prudent to wait until the HK94 has actually been entered into the registry before shipping the sear back to you. If the manufacturer is in another state, he can still transfer the SBR directly back to you. A letter, in addition to the standard Form 4 paperwork, explaining that the HK94 is owned by you, so there is no change in ownership, and that the manufacturer simply changed the configuration of the HK94.

3)Add a permanent barrel extension making the HK94's barrel over 16". To be prudent, I'd write a letter to your examiner informing the NFA Branch that the HK94 is in Title I configuration. I'd send that letter registered mail and I'd keep a copy of it with the copy of your sear's Form 4. You could then leave the HK94 as is, or send in a Form 1.

Of course this information is worth exactly what you paid for it. This is just my understanding of how and why a married sear can be divorced from a rifle host with a barrel less than 16". I'm not a lawyer, although I did play one on stage. Good luck with both of your sear divorcing projects.

Scott

The SBR can not be present without the sear in close proximity, and not being used by something else. If it is, it is an SBR and an illegal one at that. Even if an SOT has it in his/her control, it is still an unregistered and illegal SBR. The only way to get around that is to have the SOT make it an SBR and record it as such, then transfer it back to you on a form 4. That's the only way you get quick access to your sear in your example. I fear that you broke the law by having an unregistered SBR for some period of time, whoever was holding on to it.

 

[retrodog]

Ummm... you mean Form 1 for the SBR... you don't get a new Form 4. You get a letter.

No, I meant the sear Form 4. But with what scottinthegrove posted, I'm not as sure about that now. My interpretation of the situation might be a little flawed.

 

[Shattered Mind]

No, I meant the sear Form 4. But with what scottinthegrove posted, I'm not as sure about that now. My interpretation of the situation might be a little flawed.

The sear is on the Form 4. You want to file a Form 1 to divorce the sear from the host gun, making the short barreled clone legal as an SBR.

Man, it's going to take some time getting used to this new iPad... I miss a mouse.

 

[kwesi]

To the OP: I had a similar situation. Purchased a MP5K-PDW that was a Vollmer conversion & he married the sear with the identical language on the Form 4. Mine did begin life as a SP89. As Shattered has stated. I filed a Form 1 then had my trust info engraved once the approved Form 1 was received. I also requested & received a letter from the ATF stating I could then move the sear to other hosts (V53K, CA89SD, etc.). I then purchased a semi trigger housing for the K when the sear was installed in another host & keep the stock installed.

 

[retrodog]

The sear is on the Form 4. You want to file a Form 1 to divorce the sear from the host gun, making the short barreled clone legal as an SBR.

Man, it's going to take some time getting used to this new iPad... I miss a mouse.

Ok, so back to the original point to this whole thread...

I don't think he can take the sear and go play with it in other guns until he gets that form 1 back approved. The only way around that, IMHO, is to let an SOT make the gun an SBR and register it, then use a form 4 to transfer it to the OP. While waiting for that form 4 to come back, he is free to use the sear in other guns because it is no longer tied to the primary gun that is in the SOT's possession as a newly converted SBR, and on his books.

That is what the OP is trying to figure out here. I.E. "How can I use my sear in other hosts guns ASAP?" Or at least that's what I thought he was trying to ask.

And since the SOT doesn't need to file a Form 1 for a newly converted SBR in his possession, there is no actual need for a form 1.

 

[scottinthegrove]

As far as the quickest way, permanently add a barrel extension to the 94. Then the HK 94 without the sear is in Title I configuration. A pin behind the 3-lug and a little aluminum over the hole and the 94 is GTG. Then send in the Form 1. Once the Form is approved, drive the pin out and remove the extension. YMMV.

Scott

 

[Hogrydr]

...I did the search using your suggestion and found enough reading to last till midnight last night and a couple hours this morning !!!!! But I think I've got it ....The MP 5 I purchased... in 1997 is listed in 4h on form 4 along with the serial number of the receiver (with no mods) and a 8.9 inch barrel ... That makes it a married sear and if I remove the sear then the weapon becomes a SBR....So I am going to form 1 the MP 5 and after the form one gets back engrave the MP 5 and carry a copy of the form 1 with the form 4 when I use the sear in my host guns .....question is now ...if after I have done the above and have the sear in one of the host guns that is a pistol (V53 or V51) can I in stall the collaspible stock from the MP five while using the host gun and transfer the stock back when sear is removed to the MP 5 ??????Or do I need to SBR both the V 53p and the V 51p ?????

I visited my local CL 3 dealer and in conversation told him what I was planing as described above and he told me that since the two host guns were pistols and that all I needed to do was remove the collapsible stock on the MP 5 when I removed the registered sear(the MP 5 would become a pistol) and install both..stock and sear) on the particular host pistol I planed to use.....I'M CONFUSED again !!!! Please explain why this is OK or not the legal thing to do !!!!!!! Thanks

 

[Shattered Mind]

He's right. After you divorce the sear, the sear is then like a free agent.. it can go where ever you wish it to. Whatever host PISTOL you decide to install it in, you can add the butt stock of choice. When the sear comes out, the stock must come off. In the case of an MP5K pistol, you can also add the vertical grip and as before, it also must come off when the sear is not installed.

There is no need to SBR the host pistols unless you wish to keep a stock ON the pistol (without the sear).

Izzat better?