HOUSTON WE HAVE A LOW AND TO THE LEFT PROBLEM!!!

3869 Views 26 Replies 10 Participants Last post by Darebear, Mar 19, 2012

Darebear

Discussion Starter · Mar 18, 2012 (Edited)

2

Below is some of my handy work with both my HK45c's today... Guess which holes are from the LEM GGI .45c and which ones are from the HK45c V1 (stock and stock sights)...

HK45c V1 (Shots circled with Sharpie are from LEM .45c)

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HK45 LEM GGI (with Mepro's)

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I thought I was supposed to shoot LEM better than DA/SA.

Tight groups with a 10lb trigger and Low left with the GGI LEM trigger... REALLY?!?!?... I know what I'm doing wrong. I have surfed this board long enough to know that it isn't the gun, I know I'm jerking the trigger. Trust me I've seen the chart plenty of times. But I just can't understand why I can group tight with a mediocre DA/SA trigger and am having trouble with the awesome LEM trigger. This is my first time out with the LEM so hopefully I will get better.

This thread is just me blowing off steam. I talked up this gun so much to my buddies, got out on the range and we were all low and left and couldn't get used to the travel before the break... GRRRR!!! I know it's just going to take trigger time. It's just odd to me that I can shoot this DA/SA as if I was born to shoot it but can't do it with the LEM. For now the V1 is staying in the holster until I can get this LEM thing down. Any LEM shooters got any tips for me?

By the way all distances were 7 yards away... I'm still learning to hit bullseyes from 25 yards away.

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1 - 20 of 27 Posts

bordercop

· #2 · Mar 18, 2012 (Edited)

Inexperience with the LEM. the pattern indicates jerking the trigger. I've actually seen it a LOT in people who transition to a LEM. The trigger moves, and moves, and moves, until it suddenly stops, and then you jerk it through.

Go back to absolute fundamentals - slowly increasing pressure until the shot surprises you. It's all in the trigger control.

Doby19

· #3 · Mar 18, 2012

bordercop said:
Go back to absolute fundamentals - slowly increasing pressure until the shot surprises you. It's all in the trigger control.

^^^this !!! Concentrate on your sights until the shot surprises you. Bench or sandbag rest to take out shooter error.

Wolvee

· #4 · Mar 18, 2012

That looks just like my groups when I started shooting revolvers and long DOA triggers.

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bordercop

· #5 · Mar 18, 2012

P.S. Do some dry firing, before you take it back out to the range. Bruce Gray, himself, would support me in that recommendation. Don't take my word for it, though, here iare a couple of links to his training info:
Zen and the art of hitting stuff : Grayguns by Bruce Gray
Dry fire secrets of the pros : Grayguns by Bruce Gray

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 18, 2012 (Edited)

Thanks guys. I'm sorry for venting I just hate sucking, and on top of shooting horribly with my new awesome HK my Glock thought it might be a good idea to extract shell casings directly back at my face and scratched my fricking RayBans... All in all bad day at the range.

jaceh14

· #7 · Mar 18, 2012

Your Glock was jealous of all the time the HK was getting with you, and was just lashing out

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 18, 2012

jaceh14 said:
Your Glock was jealous of all the time the HK was getting with you, and was just lashing out

Ha! Well a friend already commited to buying it off of me so it'll be gone soon.

Wolvee

· #9 · Mar 18, 2012

Darebear said:
Ha! Well a friend already commited to buying it off of me so it'll be gone soon.

Unless it's a G20 you must not really like your friend. :0)

TheDreamingTree

· #10 · Mar 18, 2012

Load some SnapCaps and do a slow press-out. With your non-dominant hand, place a penny at the end of the slide. Practice clean trigger-breaks without dropping the penny. It's worked wonders for me.

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #11 · Mar 18, 2012

Wolvee said:
Unless it's a G20 you must not really like your friend. :0)

His first handgun. He's a 15 year vet and is pretty set on the Glock. Guy knows more than me so I aint gonna push him to HK if he don't want it.

Wolvee

· #12 · Mar 18, 2012

Darebear said:
His first handgun. He's a 15 year vet and is pretty set on the Glock. Guy knows more than me so I aint gonna push him to HK if he don't want it.

just a joke, I don't have anything against glocks. ..dont have anything for them either. :0)

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #13 · Mar 18, 2012

TheDreamingTree said:
Load some SnapCaps and do a slow press-out. With your non-dominant hand, place a penny at the end of the slide. Practice clean trigger-breaks without dropping the penny. It's worked wonders for me.

Yea I do that sometimes with a quarter. I don't know if this makes sense but the LEM is just to "light" for me. I don't know if it's after 3 years of practicing DA/SA or if it's that my finger likes to feel the 10lb resistance but I def shoot DA/SA better than LEM. I'm gonna dump a couple hundred rounds through this LEM and do Snapcap practice every night now.

Apollo11

· #14 · Mar 18, 2012

I think it just means that if you want to shoot LEM you need to work on it more. You should be able to learn either, don't let one bad session plant all of these seeds of doubt.

Are you pulling through the trigger or staging it like DA?

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #15 · Mar 18, 2012

Apollo11 said:
I think it just means that if you want to shoot LEM you need to work on it more. You should be able to learn either, don't let one bad session plant all of these seeds of doubt.

Are you pulling through the trigger or staging it like DA?

Pulling through. I don't stage my DA trigger. Never really liked staging a trigger. If I don't squeeze straight through the 10lbs then I start to jerk the trigger, shake etc. My trigger finger isn't strong enough to steadily hold a 10lb pull while trying to stage the trigger.

gtmtnbiker98

· #16 · Mar 18, 2012

Why are you switching it up? Just curious. This is the main reason I stay away from LEM. I tried it once on a P2000 .40 and shot fine until I upped the page and started shooting drills. Then it got ugly. It wasn't low and left, just low for me. Needless to say, it didn't last very long. LEM just isn't for me.

Darebear

Discussion Starter · #17 · Mar 18, 2012

gtmtnbiker98 said:
Why are you switching it up? Just curious. This is the main reason I stay away from LEM. I tried it once on a P2000 .40 and shot fine until I upped the page and started shooting drills. Then it got ugly. It wasn't low and left, just low for me. Needless to say, it didn't last very long. LEM just isn't for me.

I don't know. Figured after all the LEM hype on all the forums that I def needed one. This is one outing... So I'm going to stay at it for a while. It's just baffling to me that I shoot DA/SA better than the LEM. But when I had my Sig I shot it better than my Glock and I've been shooting Glocks for 3 years now. Maybe I'm just a born DA/SA shooter.

jaceh14

· #18 · Mar 18, 2012

I'm still getting used to LEM with my P30. I've found that when my shot placement starts getting out of control that clearing the pistol and doing dry fire drills right there helps me tremendously. Something to think about. Keep at it because it will make you a better shooter when you get it down

harkamus

· #19 · Mar 19, 2012 (Edited)

According to HK, you're not shooting the LEM the way they designed for you to shoot the LEM. You're supposed to take up the slack before the muzzle gets back on target. When your sights align, you have only to break the shot. Maybe the LEM isn't for you if you don't want to switch to this kind of shooting. I know it's a training thing, but apparently lots of folks think it taboo to teach yourself how to shoot a different system than you're used to.

HK45 /HK45 Compact Operator's Manual; page 11:

Firing the HK45 equipped with LEM: When pulling the trigger rearward you will first feel a relatively lnog length of free travel (slack) and then a second stage of heavier but consistent pull that actually releases the hammer and fires the pistol. This slack can and should be safely taken up, once the pistol is pointed at the target, to enhance trigger pull consistency.

FWIW, I fired the first 1000 shots of my HK45 in da/sa before I converted to LEM. I've had 1500 rounds through it with LEM since. It does take some getting used to, and then the rest is fine tuning after several sessions on the range. I now shoot the LEM better than I did the da/sa.

EDIT: As was pointed out to me, since I realize this reply wasn't clear, I left out one detail that seemed logical to me. Only on the first shot and after a mag switch, should you take up the slack. On following shots, one should only release the trigger to the point it resets. That could take some getting used to, so I suggest dry firing to get some practice on the trigger mechanics. If I'm not on the range, I'm dry firing. It helps a lot with cutting down the learning curve with the LEM. Your grips will improve if you stick with it.

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Apollo11

· #20 · Mar 19, 2012

harkmus,

I know there are many ways to skin a cat, but why do you let the slack out so far as it has to be taken up again when the muzzle comes back on target? The first pull for me is a take up/pull straight through the stroke, then everything else is shooting to the reset. I do the slack out again after doing a reload, but only then.

Am I missing something on your post?

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