HKPRO Forums banner
1 - 20 of 34 Posts

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
12,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The subject comes up regularly and we tend to whack it when folks ask how to go about remarking an HK weapon, specifically NFA and similar conversions. Because that is the solicitation of legal advice and many folks get it wrong. Small Arms Review had an excellent article published by a firearms attorney on the subject in February of 2012. You can review the article here:


The federal net is: never ever mess with the serial number. You can change model number and such, but that must be done BEFORE it becomes an NFA item. There is NO remediation for unlawfully marked weapons.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
694 Posts
Unless you live in Alabama.

As per Section 13A-11-64

Alteration, etc., of manufacturer's number, etc., of firearm; possession, etc., of firearm after identification altered.

A person who either:

(1) Changes, alters, removes, or obliterates the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark or identification of any firearm, or

(2) Possesses, obtains, receives, sells, or uses a firearm after the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark or identification has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, is guilty of a Class C felony.

(Acts 1982, No. 82-430, §3.)


The chances of being charged are minuscule, but like 922r some feel better safe than sorry.
 

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
12,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Correct! Some states have more stringent requirements.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,002 Posts
Unless you live in Alabama.

As per Section 13A-11-64

Alteration, etc., of manufacturer's number, etc., of firearm; possession, etc., of firearm after identification altered.

A person who either:

(1) Changes, alters, removes, or obliterates the name of the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark or identification of any firearm, or

(2) Possesses, obtains, receives, sells, or uses a firearm after the maker, model, manufacturer's number or other mark or identification has been changed, altered, removed, or obliterated, is guilty of a Class C felony.

(Acts 1982, No. 82-430, §3.)


The chances of being charged are minuscule, but like 922r some feel better safe than sorry.
This is the part people choose to ignore it seems, state laws!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,464 Posts
If one has a title 1 gun "made" into a title 2, class 3 gun (SBR), would it still be altering in the case of making a "new" weapon?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
694 Posts
If one has a title 1 gun "made" into a title 2, class 3 gun (SBR), would it still be altering in the case of making a "new" weapon?
I believe so. As has been discussed before, even on a Form 1 you are not the "manufacturer." HK is still the manufacturer and it is still marked as such. Besides even if it was true, you would still have to remark the gun before the Form 1 anyway.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
391 Posts
I would recommend that you contact an attorney in your state, but the law looks pretty clear as stated.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
34,552 Posts
Excellent information by all--- definitely check state laws before proceeding!!! :biggrin:

Tony
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8,464 Posts
I believe so. As has been discussed before, even on a Form 1 you are not the "manufacturer." HK is still the manufacturer and it is still marked as such. Besides even if it was true, you would still have to remark the gun before the Form 1 anyway.
This is not an area where I claim any knowledge, but I was told some time ago, when a builder does the conversion to SBR, for the purposes of ATF, if the SBR is in their name, not the customer's, they are the manufacturer if they exceed a certain quantity of guns within a year (50?), they may be subject to paying a tax associated with manufacturing a firearm (FET?).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
694 Posts
This is not an area where I claim any knowledge, but I was told some time ago, when a builder does the conversion to SBR, for the purposes of ATF, if the SBR is in their name, not the customer's, they are the manufacturer if they exceed a certain quantity of guns within a year (50?), they may be subject to paying a tax associated with manufacturing a firearm (FET?).
Wow I was not aware of that, that's an extremely specific circumstance.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
12,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Exceed making 50 items in a year and you have to pay FET. As far as changing markings go, refer back to the article (for federal). You can change anything except the serial number while it is Title I. Once it becomes Title II you cannot.

So let's say you, as an individual, want to turn your SP5K into an MP5 SBR "properly" marked for what it becomes...

1) Buy the SP5K
2) Remark the model name
3) File your Form 1
4) Wait
5) Receive approval
6) Mark weapon with your name and location

If you remark the model *after* it becomes an NFA item, you have broken the law.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,357 Posts
Exceed making 50 items in a year and you have to pay FET. As far as changing markings go, refer back to the article (for federal). You can change anything except the serial number while it is Title I. Once it becomes Title II you cannot.

So let's say you, as an individual, want to turn your SP5K into an MP5 SBR "properly" marked for what it becomes...

1) Buy the SP5K
2) Remark the model name
3) File your Form 1
4) Wait
5) Receive approval
6) Mark weapon with your name and location

If you remark the model *after* it becomes an NFA item, you have broken the law.

So, when does a Title I weapon become a Title II weapon? Upon filing a Form 1 to make it an SBR? When the Form 1 is approved?

If the Form 1 were to be processed in a couple weeks it would not be much of a distinction but such is not the case now. The last Form 1
I did a couple years ago was over 8 months and now I think its even longer.
 

·
Merchant of Death (Admin)
Joined
·
12,043 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
At the federal level, a weapon does not become a Title II weapon until it possesses those characteristics. Approved paperwork for an SBR does not make the gun an SBR. Shortening the barrel does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RoundelNut599

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,584 Posts
At the federal level, a weapon does not become a Title II weapon until it possesses those characteristics. Approved paperwork for an SBR does not make the gun an SBR. Shortening the barrel does.
Correct... That's why you can file for a refund on a form 1 if you never "made" the approved SBR, suppressor, AOW, etc.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
This may be a silly question, but where is the best place to engrave an mp5 clone? I got my stamp and joined the forum yesterday. Whoo Hoo!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,641 Posts
This may be a silly question, but where is the best place to engrave an mp5 clone? I got my stamp and joined the forum yesterday. Whoo Hoo!
Most put it in the same place as the factory - the spine along the top of the receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
220 Posts
Most put it in the same place as the factory - the spine along the top of the receiver.
Thank you for the reply. However, my optics rail sits up there, and the serial number is up there as well, so there’s not much room. This is a Zenith Z5RS. Hmmm...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
633 Posts
What I think is interesting about this, is ATF says if it's not in a NFA configuration (i.e., a stamped pistol with a stock that has the stock removed), it's not NFA. If it's not NFA, you can change the marking...

Clear as mud.
 
1 - 20 of 34 Posts
Top