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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Well it's a sad time in my house. I'm afraid that for financial reasons that I may have to unload some items from my vault. I'm in need of some new tools for my workshop and can't afford to dip into savings at this time.
Soooo my problem is........ I have a VERY nice Hk94 (ID date code) that I was planning on making into a nice SBR. Well that dream will have to wait. :( I put the gun a Form 1 (stamp and all). Now the work has not been done and the weapon is still in factory condition but registered as a SBR. To sell this weapon would it be better to remove it from the registry or try to sell it as a NFA weapon even though it is still full length?
Any ideas?

Thanks.
 

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Assuming you are an individual (post said Form 1), if you sell it in state, just do what the buyer wants.

If you sell it out of state as an SBR there will be $400 more in transfer fees. $200 from you to out of state dealer and another $200 from out of state dealer to individual buyer.

If you de-register it as an SBR, it can be sold out of state with no transfer taxes and the buyer would just pay the regular $200 making tax.

I hope this helps.

Darin Reiss
FFL/SOT in KS
 

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leave it as an SBR.Hopefully someone buys it that lives close to one of the many Hk smiths an dyou can send it directly to them for the transfer and the transformation can be done while they wait on the transfer to be completed as an added bonus!
 

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I would personally find a way to keep the HK-94 as you will likely have a hard time replacing it in the future. Also, you will have to go through the hassle of the F1/F4 process again.

If you absolutely need to sell it, sell it as a SBR. There are a LOT of sear owners out there that want a real deal HK-94. You may have to discount it to sell it as an SBR, but either way you are still losing money because you already spent the money on the tax stamp
 

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If you haven't completed the sbr process (you haven't), you should be able to get the $200.00 refunded to you if it's been less than 2 years since it was approved.

Also, did you engrave it with your info?
If you didn't. that should make it even easier to sell.
If I were you, I'd remove it from the registry, and try to get the refund, and sell it as a regular title I weapon.
 

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+1 on removing it from the NFA registry. I'm doing that with my SBR mini uzi that I sold. I'll pm you the contact info.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thanks everybody for your input. I think that I will take it off the registry and just sell it as a Title 1 weapon.

For all those who sent PM's- there were so many I couldn't respond to all- I will be posting a WTS ad soon for the 94 and some other stuff that I will have to off load( :( I just need the cash). So thanks for the interest and input. As soon as I'm sure that the weapon is off the registry I will post the ad. See ya soon.....

PS. I'll make sure to post pic's.
 

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Best of luck to you and I hope things get better.

Please follow up in this thread and let us know about your experience going through the de-registering process of your 94.
 

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Absolutly-- I'll let you all know how painfull it was :)
I have sort of did this not that long ago. What happened was is I had an apprioved form one to make a suppressor for an MP5 SD I was going to make. I decided I was no longer going to make the SD. I called the examiner that approved the form 1 and told her what I decided to do and she let me send in a new form one for a 33K (SBR) without the $200 for the tax stamp. She allowed me to use the $200 for the original form one for the SD and put it towards the $200 for the 33K (SBR). This was all done within a week of the original form 1 being approved. It was very painless experience.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sorry for the delay but here is the update I promised regarding removing a weapon from the NFA registry.

I called and spoke to the agent who had approved my original Form 1. She said that I just needed to send a letter TO HER requesting the removal of the weapon from the registry, my orignial Form 1 with stamp attachedand and also stating that the gun would still be legal ie. Title 1 . She said that "the minute" my letter was in her hands that it would be removed. With in one week I recieved a confirmation letter and a notice that she had submitted a request for refund from the ATF.
 

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If you haven't completed the sbr process (you haven't), you should be able to get the $200.00 refunded to you if it's been less than 2 years since it was approved.

Also, did you engrave it with your info?
If you didn't. that should make it even easier to sell.
If I were you, I'd remove it from the registry, and try to get the refund, and sell it as a regular title I weapon.
What is your source on this? First time Ive heard of a refund. The $200 is a transfer fee/tax per transaction..
 

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Form 1 refund

About 2 years ago I sent a From 1 to SBR a gun that wasn't yet made. I got the approved form back & due to a situation beyond my control couldn't make the SBR. Sent the Form 1 back explaining the situation & they refunded my $200. As long as the SBR was never actually made you can get a refund. I'm not sure if there is some time limit for this or not.
 

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What is your source on this? First time Ive heard of a refund. The $200 is a transfer fee/tax per transaction..
I don't remember where I heard it. But it is true. You can easily verify this by asking the NFA.

Some things you hear aren't true, but I know this is true. I have heard other things in the past, but I always verify it before I post on a board like this.
 

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About 2 years ago I sent a From 1 to SBR a gun that wasn't yet made. I got the approved form back & due to a situation beyond my control couldn't make the SBR. Sent the Form 1 back explaining the situation & they refunded my $200. As long as the SBR was never actually made you can get a refund. I'm not sure if there is some time limit for this or not.
I'll call my examiner on this Monday. I've been an SOT for years and have never heard this from another dealer, individual, or the BATFE NFA branch.

Once the application is approved you have made the SBR, no refunds.

Now, show me a copy of the check and letter the ATF sent with it and I'll stand corrected.

ETA, I did have one customer a few years ago that retracted his form 4 BEFORE it was approved and did receive a refund, took about 6 months to get the refund check from the Treasury dept.
 

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hmmm, so i gets to thinking....

- i fill out a F1, wait, get approval

- i make the mods, converting to Title 2

- within 6~ mos or so, I write Tech branch informing them that I've
returned the firearm to Title 1...or that the manuf never occured

- Tech Branch issues me a $200 refund

- I, with approved F1 in hand, continue my life with....and never
"get around to" converting back to Title 1, and able to produce
this original F1 when needed

- the Registry is, for the most part, private

- the serial # stays off NCIC searches as it is not stolen etc

hmmm......you *know* something about all this isn't making sense
 

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Once the stamp is cancelled (marked with teh serial number) I thought it was $200 spent.No refund.the situation above could easily occur.
 

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hmmm, so i gets to thinking....

- i fill out a F1, wait, get approval

- i make the mods, converting to Title 2

- within 6~ mos or so, I write Tech branch informing them that I've
returned the firearm to Title 1...or that the manuf never occured

- Tech Branch issues me a $200 refund

- I, with approved F1 in hand, continue my life with....and never
"get around to" converting back to Title 1, and able to produce
this original F1 when needed

- the Registry is, for the most part, private

- the serial # stays off NCIC searches as it is not stolen etc

hmmm......you *know* something about all this isn't making sense
Except that if you ever get jammed up, any agent worth their salt is going to check in the NFRTR anyway just to make sure that the form 1 is not a forgery. When the weapon doesn't come back as part of the registry, it's 10 years in prison for your trouble. I don't like paying taxes any more than the next guy, but in order to do things legally, you have to pay to play.

Plus, I thought that the original poster stated that he had to send in the original form 1 anyway.
 

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I'll call my examiner on this Monday. I've been an SOT for years and have never heard this from another dealer, individual, or the BATFE NFA branch.

Once the application is approved you have made the SBR, no refunds.

Now, show me a copy of the check and letter the ATF sent with it and I'll stand corrected.

ETA, I did have one customer a few years ago that retracted his form 4 BEFORE it was approved and did receive a refund, took about 6 months to get the refund check from the Treasury dept.
Does this answer your question?

§ 479.172 Refunds.
As indicated in this part, the transfer
tax or tax on the making of a
firearm is ordinarily paid by the purchase
and affixing of stamps, while
special tax stamps are issued in
97
payment of special (occupational)
taxes. However, in exceptional
cases, transfer tax, tax on the making
of firearms, and/or special (occupational)
tax may be paid
pursuant to assessment. Claims for
refunds of such taxes, paid pursuant
to assessment, shall be filed on ATF
Form 2635 (5620.8) within 3 years
next after payment of the taxes.
Such claims shall be filed with the
regional director (compliance) serving
the region in which the tax was
paid. (For provisions relating to
hand-carried documents and manner
of filing, see 26 CFR 301.6091–
1(b) and 301.6402–2(a).) When an
applicant to make or transfer a firearm
wishes a refund of the tax paid
on an approved application where
the firearm was not made pursuant
to an approved Form 1 (Firearms) or
transfer of the firearm did not take
place pursuant to an approved Form
4
(Firearms), the applicant shall file
a claim for refund of the tax on ATF
Form 2635 (5620.8) with the Director.
The claim shall be accompanied
by the approved application bearing
the stamp and an explanation why
the tax liability was not incurred.
Such claim shall be filed within 3
years next after payment of the tax.


http://www.atf.gov/pub/fire-explo_pub/2005/p53004/27cfr_part479.pdf
 

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Sorry for the late reply, I meant to post this yesterday evening but got sidetrack with a customer wanting a 5.45x39mm Polish AK74.....

I called the ATF NFA branch and asked about the process steps needed for a refund as was given this guidance:

  • Call the examiner on the Form 1
  • Ask to void the form 1 and cancel the registry entry
  • Send original Form 1 back so stamp can be voided
  • Submit written request with reason for refund (Form 2635 5620.8)
  • Refund "should" take 8-10 weeks.
Now, world of caution from the ATF, if the receiver or original donor firearm has been altered in any way per the form 1, ie, engraved, cut barrel, etc, you will have manufactured the new firearm in which you paid the tax on and will not be entitled to a refund. You may also be subject to an inspection from a compliance inspector, after requesting a refund. Which given their limited resources I don't think they would do, but who knows. They also of course advised that the firearm must be returned to it's non-SBR configuration before the form 1 is voided.

Feel to call me if you have any questions, not that I know anything more then I posted, but I'm always willing to help.
 
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