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Discussion Starter #1
I heard the shots just a few minutes ago and was like WTF as I had my windows open with the unusually warm 62 degree weather... Apparently 2 auxillary cops (they're not allowed to CCW off duty like full time NYPD are) exchanged semi automatic fire with possibly several gunmen at at bar in the village. One cop is dead and one of the gunman is hit. Now NYPD is trying to figure out what happened and how that gunman got hit when aux NYPD aren't allowed to carry. Helicopters are flying over my building trying to find the other gunman. Easily more than 40 shots fired. This is not going to be good for pushing for relaxing NY gun laws. Liberals are gonna have a field day with this one... :(

More on the news:
http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5123152

Auxilliary officer killed in wild shootoutIt happened on Bleeker Street in Greenwich Village

(New York - WABC, March 14, 2007) - Authorities tell Eyewitness News that an auxilliary police officers was killed after a wild shootout Wednesday night.

Another officers was involved in the shootout and was injured in the shooting.
It happened outside 175 Bleeker Street, which is near the corner of Sullivan Street.

Witnesses say shots were fired outside the Lion's Den bar, and that the officers were possibly injured in the struggle with a suspect.

Darren McNamara, a tourist, tells the Associated Press, that he heard two bursts and thought it was someone shattering the front window of a shop. It turns out he heard gunfire.

Witnesses say suspects ran into the Lion's Den bar where someone was wounded inside and later removed on a stretcher.

Details are sketchy at this time, but Eyewitness News will have the latest coming up at 11 p.m.

http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=67691

Two Auxiliary Police Officers Injured In Bar Shooting, Witnesses Say

March 14, 2007

Two NYPD officers were injured Wednesday night when shots were fired outside a Greenwich Village bar, according to witnesses.

Witnesses say up to 40 shots were fired outside the bar at 208 Sullivan Street.

According to witnesses, an NYPD auxiliary officer was admitted to Saint Vincent’s Hospital with an apparent gunshot wound, while another was brought in with what appeared to be minor injuries from flying glass.

Witnesses say at least one other man was injured at the scene by an apparent gunshot wound.

As of late Wednesday night, police officials confirmed that there was a shooting at that location but they would not release any details.

The Auxiliary Police Program is a volunteer program made up of about 4,000 men and women in New York City, according to the NYPD’s website. Auxiliary police act as a uniformed liaison to the NYPD in the event of an emergency.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Update... ok got more info from a few sources but they all match each other.

A perp walks into a restaurant, shoots someone in side, runs out smack into 2 aux NYPD. The perp panics opens fire on both the unarmed aux NYPD. He flees on foot, then runs into full time NYPD who exchange fire with the guy and the drop him as the perp opened fire on them.

What an idiot. Did he really think he could shoot someone in NYC like that in the middle of the biggest bar area in the village where there's always cops around there? They even have a mini station at the edge of washington square park, only 100 feet away from that intersection!

Look, that brick building in the background is the NYU Law dorm...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
2nd police officer AUX is dead. NY'ers don't know what automatic gun fire sounds like...

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=5123346

(New York - WABC, March 14, 2007) - Authorities tell Eyewitness News that a second auxiliary police officer has died after a wild shootout Wednesday night in Greenwich Village.

Police confirmed the first auxiliary officer's death just after 11 p.m. The second officer's death was confirmed just before midnight. Both officers were taken to St. Vincent's Hospital, where Mayor Bloomberg arrived along with a heavy police presence.
Eyewitness News' Jim Dolan reports that the shooting started at DeMarco's Pizza at 208 Sullivan Street around 9:30 p.m. We have learned that an employee was shot six times inside DeMarco's. Witnesses say that employee is dead.

In addition, a suspect, who police say started it all, was killed. He was found with a 9 millimeter semiautomatic handgun and a spare ammo clip, police say.

It was a wild scene earlier in the night. Keep in mind that Bleeker Street has a lot of bars and a lot of people out enjoying the first nice weather of spring -- and then suddenly a lot of shots, at least two separate semiautomatic handguns and people ran screaming to get away from the gunfire.

One bar owner heard the gunfire just down the street from his bar.

"They're shooting outside ... I just couldn't believe it ... I came to the window ... I heard 15-18 shots ... like an automatic, that's what it sound like," the bar owner said.

There are a lot of unanswered questions and police are not giving out a lot of information.

Stay with Eyewitness News for the latest on this story.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Oh man, one of the aux as an NYU student... The guy had 100 rounds, so that means he had 10 mags, dumping 2 mags into his victim (unless he had illegal mags - totally possible in this case). He definitely was prepared to shoot anyone who got in his way. Sheesh.

Better info here:
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=67691

Two NYPD auxiliary police officers were shot and killed by a heavily-armed gunman in a volley of gunfire on the streets of Greenwich Village Wednesday night, after the suspect had fatally shot a restaurant employee.

Witnesses described a chaotic scene in which people screamed and ran for cover during a barrage of 15-20 bullets outside a popular stretch of restaurants near the campus of New York University.

The gunman was subsequently shot and killed by a responding New York City police officer.

Police say the incident began when the gunman entered DeMarco's Pizzeria at the corner of Macdougal and West Houston and shot an employee 15 times, killing him. After fleeing the restaurant the suspect was pursued up Sullivan Street by auxiliary officers Nicholas Pekearo, 28, and Eugene Marshalik, 19, a student at NYU.

The gunman shot both officers, killing them.

He then fled to the corner of Bleecker and Sullivan, where he was confronted by NYPD officers and was shot dead.

Police recovered two handguns and approximately one hundred rounds of unspent ammunition, leading authorities to say the incident could have been even more tragic had the suspect not been stopped when he was.

"This tragedy, as horrific as it was, could have been a lot worse without the actions of our brave officers," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg at an early-morning press conference at St. Vincent's Hospital, where the injured officers were pronounced dead.

The gunman was also found to be carrying a fake beard, which witnesses said he had been wearing as a disguise when he shot the restaurant employee.

Police closed off several blocks around the area as patrons streamed into the streets following the shootings.

The city's auxiliary police force is made up of approximately 4,500 volunteer officers who act as unarmed, uniformed liaisons to the NYPD in the event of an emergency.

Pekearo and Marshalik are the sixth and seventh auxiliary officers to lose their lives in the line of duty since the program's inception. The last auxiliary officer fatality occurred in 1993.

"They gave their lives to keep our streets safe," Bloomberg said.

Wednesday night's incident was the third time in two days that NYPD officers have been attacked in the line of duty.
 

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even on the otherside of the US.......it just made the news this morning.

the poor aux police.......they need to arm them.
 

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anybody know if this ended around kossuth and moshulu parkway (near Montefiore hospital). I was dropping some kids off there. NYPD had an intersection taped off. 6-10 cars. policemen walking the sidewalks w/ flashlights looking for something on the ground. and lots of activity. can't find anything about it on the net. heard somebody say something about a shooting there.
wonder if this is where the police caught up with the guy or if it's a different incident.
 

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I'll wait for the complete report but....

*speculation mode*

If he fired 15 bullets into his victim, I think it's likely he had a 15 round magazine. Is that illegal in NYC?

If he obtained the gun illegally, surely this would be another mark up for the pro-gunners?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Nope it started and ended in the village:
http://www.ny1.com/ny1/content/index.jsp?stid=1&aid=67691

There's a thread on packing.org too about this. Everyone is ticked off these AUX officers are unarmed. They had the sense of duty to go after the guy after they knew he was armed and just shot anyone, despite the fact that they had no way to return fire and defend themselves. They paid with their lives... :( Interesting how they keep saying that the AUX NYPD are civilians that volunteer and that's why they're unarmed. If the city doesn't want to arm them, at least give them the option to CCW on their own!
 

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I'll wait for the complete report but....

*speculation mode*

If he fired 15 bullets into his victim, I think it's likely he had a 15 round magazine. Is that illegal in NYC?

If he obtained the gun illegally, surely this would be another mark up for the pro-gunners?
That's exactly what I posted on the packing.org forum... Proof that criminals do not abide by gun laws... *rolleyes* I bet they'll somehow spin this saying we now need even more gun control becuase this idiot managed to pull a crime with an illegal mag (and probably illegally acquired pistols). The media is really spindoctoring this with quotes from people "It was like war!!" "It sounded like automatic fire!" Idiots! These people don't know even what war is like first hand, nor what automatic gun fire sounds like...

Interestingly enough had I gone to the range that night, I probably would've ended up at the Olive Tree which is right on that corner of Bleeker and Sullivan for dinner around that time too with a bunch of the other range folks. None of us have CCW and could've easily been victims.
 

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That's exactly what I posted on the packing.org forum... Proof that criminals do not abide by gun laws... *rolleyes* I bet they'll somehow spin this saying we now need even more gun control becuase this idiot managed to pull a crime with an illegal mag (and probably illegally acquired pistols). The media is really spindoctoring this with quotes from people "It was like war!!" "It sounded like automatic fire!" Idiots! These people don't know even what war is like first hand, nor what automatic gun fire sounds like...

Interestingly enough had I gone to the range that night, I probably would've ended up at the Olive Tree which is right on that corner of Bleeker and Sullivan for dinner around that time too with a bunch of the other range folks. None of us have CCW and could've easily been victims.
I see Bloomberg is saying it could have been a lot worse... well it could have been better had those two auxiliary officers been armed or had there been a legally armed civilian (CCW) in the pizzeria.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
yeah. If there was CCW that guy definitely would have probably had 2nd thoughts if he knew that there was a good chance that civilians would be armed. Kinda like what happened in Phoenix, AZ when their CCW went into effect (crime rate bottomed out).
 

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Also for what it's worth, for all the years of my life living in NYC (and that's a lot) this is the first time I've heard shots out on the street. It's not like this happens all the time (well maybe if you're in Bed-Stuy maybe...) LOL
 

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If NYC auxiliary cops are prohibited from carrying off-duty - do they carry on-duty?

Is private ownership of handguns, rifles, or shotguns allowed in NYC? If not, when did that ban go into effect? Under Bloomberg or before?

The reason data on positive use of firearms is not widely available is because legal use is not tracked. Why don't governmental bodies track self-defense data concerning firearms?
 

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If NYC auxiliary cops are prohibited from carrying off-duty - do they carry on-duty?

Is private ownership of handguns, rifles, or shotguns allowed in NYC? If not, when did that ban go into effect? Under Bloomberg or before?

The reason data on positive use of firearms is not widely available is because legal use is not tracked. Why don't governmental bodies track self-defense data concerning firearms?

I thought I saw something from the FBI saying firearms were used legally 2 million times every year... can't remember where that was though; I think it was mentioned in the Penn & Teller Bull*** video too.
 

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WOW, I have to give it up to those AUX cops! They are some brave souls. I am sure they were more than qualified to work full time on the police force. I'ts a shame that this happened and I hope it shows our states officials how CHL are a good thing to have! My thoughts go out to the AUX cops and the families involved!!
 

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If NYC auxiliary cops are prohibited from carrying off-duty - do they carry on-duty?

Is private ownership of handguns, rifles, or shotguns allowed in NYC? If not, when did that ban go into effect? Under Bloomberg or before?

The reason data on positive use of firearms is not widely available is because legal use is not tracked. Why don't governmental bodies track self-defense data concerning firearms?
I stand corrected after reading more. The Aux NYPD aren't allowed to carry guns period, not even personal ones. They are still considered civilians so that NYPD can't be liable, but are excepted to be the "eyes and ears" of the street and radio in, despite the fact that they are in uniform, where in this case the fact that they were in uniform were the exact reason why they were victims.

Private ownership of guns, rifles, and shotguns is allowed, but is the biggest pain due to the hurdles you need to go through. You need to get a license first which is a huge red tape nightmare (took me 18 months to get it despite having nothing on my record), you have a permission slip to buy a firearm at the point, where you have to buy from an FFL in NYC. The FFL signs and fills out some more paperwork hands you the gun, and you take the gun and the paperwork back to NYPD within 72 hours (or its illegal possession of a gun - instant 3 year prison felony). They inspect the gun and put the serial # and calibre on your license. To purchase ammo you have to show your license and can only buy the calibre of a gun you own. Possession of ammo of a calibre other than what you own is also instant felony. CCW is impossible for the average law abiding citizen unless you're LE (full NYPD), licensed security company, or a business owner that has financials that prove you carry $10,000 in jewelry, cash, or equivalent (not merchandise) on a DAILY basis. If one day of the working week you don't, you're pretty much SOL. Most of these laws went into effect during the Guiliani era (1993 on). Bloomberg came to power and restricted CCW even more.
 

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Wait a minute, that's impossible. Civilians aren't allowed to have handguns in NYC. Didn't that perp know he was breaking the law?

The families of the officers should sue NYC for everything. Even off duty police can't carry their own weapons?

I heard an interview with that Bernard Kerik, ex- police commissioner of NYC. He was endorsing Guliani for president, and when being pressed about NYC's extreme gun control, he tried to feed some BS line about "oh, we (meaning himself and Guliani) support gun ownership, we just want "to be sure the 'right' people are the only ones that have them."

And he was using that comment to ASSURE the interviewer that Guliani is not anti-gun. The interviewer argued that the Constitution was not written that way. Scary schieze for someone running for president.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
We are allowed to own, but they make it close to impossible, if not outright frustrating to go through all the hoops just to get a residence license (keep at home and range/hunting only).

Enacting one of the strictest gun laws in the country and calling yourself NOT anti-gun is total BS. These people fail to realize that criminals by definition do not obey the law in the first place, so why would they obey the law on acquiring guns? The perp was obviously breaking many laws here, all the way from homicide down to illegal possession of a high capacity mag.
 

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Legal Use

I dont know the exact numbers or percentages off hand but know they are not the numbers and stats published and pimped by the media. About two weeks ago my PD and almost every other PD in the free world recieved a copy of a study performed by the FBI. It was also posted on a lot of forums I read. It looked at attacks on deadly attacks on Cops and trends in those case. In a high percentage of the attacks the guns were purchased or aquired legally. Yes I said Legally. A small percentage were illegal and almost none were aquired from gunshows. This info goes against what they try to spew all the time. I dont know the stats but can get them if anybody wants them. Or try a search. Might have also been posted on this board as well.
 
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