[kdogg]

Is there anyone in Michigan who can suggest an FFL who will ship a HK USC/UMP Conversion who won't argue with me about my NAVY F/A receiver and fact that its registered as a pistol?

I've been trying to ship a UMP conversion for weeks now and I keep getting turned away because half the FFL's I've asked don't "understand" what I've done here and they think my gun may just be illegal.

I need to get this thing shipped before the FFL who bought it sics the ATF on me lol. I would prefer to ship it as a whole gun, not have to strip it.

 

[dane421]

Is there anyone in Michigan who can suggest an FFL who will ship a HK USC/UMP Conversion who won't argue with me about my NAVY F/A receiver and fact that its registered as a pistol?

How can a USC rifle be registered as a pistol? Once a rifle always a rifle.

 

[kdogg]

Now you sound like my local FFL dealers lol

Once again... It's still a rifle, HOWEVER! in Michigan a rifle under 30 inches but OVER 26 with a barrel of 16 inches must be registered as a pistol. If a rifle is less then 26 inches, its a SBR even if it has a 16 inch barrel.

So there for, I must get it out of my name before I can ship it which might be ok but the nature of the conversion scares most dealers. They don't understand using FA marked receivers and the 922r rules so they think I've done something illegal.

 

[sniper1]

move to florida

 

[rext]

Ship it yourself? Is there a local or state law that prevents you from doing that?Not sure I follow?

 

[swenk]

Did you already register it as a pistol? I cant see where that would make a difference as far as shipping.

Mainly, do you still have the original USC lower and stock? If so, and it were me, I would just put those back on to ship it. Just send all of your conversion parts along with it (or in a seperate box if you think your FFL would freak out) and have the buyer swap them out. It would only take them a few minutes and you could walk them through it over the phone.

Or hell just ship the receiver alone as the firearm, no lower or stock with it, and send the conversion parts seperately.

Hope this helps.

And yes I moved from Michigan to Florida a while back and couldn't be happier.. lol

 

[[email protected]]

Is there anyone in Michigan who can suggest an FFL who will ship a HK USC/UMP Conversion who won't argue with me about my NAVY F/A receiver and fact that its registered as a pistol?

I've been trying to ship a UMP conversion for weeks now and I keep getting turned away because half the FFL's I've asked don't "understand" what I've done here and they think my gun may just be illegal.

I need to get this thing shipped before the FFL who bought it sics the ATF on me lol. I would prefer to ship it as a whole gun, not have to strip it.

Ship it yourself. Unless Michigan law prevents you from doing so a non-licensee may ship to a licensee out of state. How did you make a pistol out of a rifle?

 

[kdogg]

Yes but its still registered to me in this state as a pistol. I need it out of my name. You can't just mail a pistol like you can a rifle I'm told.

I'm going to try this one more time.

This is a Michigan law....

IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN... ANY RIFLE that is UNDER 30 inches, but OVER 26 inches, with a rifle barrel that is 16 inches must be registered AS A PISTOL even though it is a rifle.

Nice thing about it, we can carry them as pistols for a CCW weapon. I can legally carry a USC/UMP conversion under my jacket. Be big but legal.

Again, this applies to ALL guns that are under 30 but over 26 inches. For example, the FN PS90.... Here in Michigan its a rifle BUT it must be registered as a pistol. Once registered at a pistol, I can legally conceal carry it if I choose to.

Yes moving to Florida would be nice lol.

If I convert it back to a USC, its still registered as a pistol and they will process it like a rifle. I don't think that will take it out of my name and might still not be the proper way to transfer it.

 

[dane421]

That is really interesting, crazy situation. I would contact your local ATF office and ask them how to procede. When the ffl you are shipping to receives the USC he will put it in his book as a rifle, and transfer it to the buyer as a rifle. So when you put the folding stock on it you had to register the gun as a pistol. How did you do that? was it a ATF form or something else. I am really interested to know how this works out. There has got to be an ffl out there that would work with you.

 

[[email protected]]

Yes but its still registered to me in this state as a pistol. I need it out of my name. You can't just mail a pistol like you can a rifle I'm told.

I'm going to try this one more time.

This is a Michigan law....

IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN... ANY RIFLE that is UNDER 30 inches, but OVER 26 inches, with a rifle barrel that is 16 inches must be registered AS A PISTOL even though it is a rifle.

Nice thing about it, we can carry them as pistols for a CCW weapon. I can legally carry a USC/UMP conversion under my jacket. Be big but legal.

Again, this applies to ALL guns that are under 30 but over 26 inches. For example, the FN PS90.... Here in Michigan its a rifle BUT it must be registered as a pistol. Once registered at a pistol, I can legally conceal carry it if I choose to.

Yes moving to Florida would be nice lol.

If I convert it back to a USC, its still registered as a pistol and they will process it like a rifle. I don't think that will take it out of my name and might still not be the proper way to transfer it.

Sounds to me as far as interstate commerce is concerned it's still a rifle. Call your local ATF office for advice, good luck. I would contact the Michigan State Police or whomever administered the pistol registration and tell them the firearm has been sold out of state and what is the correct procedure.

 

[ThompsonCrazy]

Kdogg,
Where are you in MI?
I went through the same enourmous, sloppy, stinky mess when I lived there with my underfolder AK!!
Is it already converted or are you trying to ship it out to get converted?
I am assuming that since it is already registered as a pistol that it has the folding stock on it?
If you are just trying to ship it then ship it from a UPS hub, Overnight of course and show them the receiver of the packages FFL..... There is no law saying that an individual can not ship a firearm as long as it is going to an FFL. Let me know more info and I will try to help out.(depending on where in MI)
TC

 

[swenk]

You can ship a pistol as an individual just like you can a rifle, I have people do it often when sending to me to save on FFL fees. Perfectly legal. The receiving FFL will do the transer for you on their end.
But that is a strange situation, not sure if they would enter it as a rifle or a pistol on their end. i would receive it as a rifle.

 

[ThompsonCrazy]

Through the eyes of the Feds the weapon is a rifle. Michigan see's it as a "pisifle" or "rifistol". I think that all in all it is just a rifle however MI requires it be registered since its OAL is 26-30. Save yourself some money and ship it as a rifle.
When I lived in MI I resided in West Bloomfield and there was a really great FFL there who did my transfers as well as AK builds. He is familiar with the under 30 MI law and helped me out. Are you any where near there?
TC

 

[rext]

If (under Fed law) you ship it and your FFL says its a pistol,when the recieving dealer gets it ,its a rifle in the rest of the country.How or why does it matter that its in your name? It not registered like a NFA piece?Just get a bill of sale or reciept or whatever if you are worried about that.Send it to th erecieving FFL and when he transfers it to your buyer,then its in his name.Thats why FFL have to recieve,theres a paper trail.Unless MI has some thing else stupid that I dont know about?

 

[kdogg]

Someone from the HK Pro forums actually gave me a call who seems to know what he is talking about.

He was from here in Michigan and knew exactly what issue i was running into and told me how to proceed.

I think I have a formulated plan to get this shipped out that will give me something saying its no longer mine if anything ever comes up.

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll tell you what I did, if it works out.

 

[txyaloo]

From looking over a page on the MSP's website, Michigan has some arcane firearms laws. I did find this information that may help you. Basically the same situation you're in - except you're selling and not giving as a gift.

I am giving my registered pistols to my son who lives in another state. How do I get the Michigan Safety Inspection Certificates out of my name?

There are no provisions in the statute; however, send a letter to the Michigan State Police, Firearms Records Unit, 7150 Harris Drive, Lansing, Michigan 48913, advising of the transaction. The letter must include a description of the pistols, your son's name and address, and the date of transaction in order for the Firearms Records Unit to update their records. Your son must comply with the weapons laws of his own state. There are federal restrictions regarding transfer of ownership across state lines.

 

[Jmacken37]

Kdogg,

I'm a new FFL/SOT in SE MI and would be happy to help you. That being said, you don't need me. The state of MI has no jurisdiction in the interstate transfer of firearms. They only have a role in the intrastate disposition.

You can ship a rifle (by federal definition) to any out of state FFL or to yourself.

Jake

 

[Chopstix Kid]

KDOGG

I live in Michigan so I know EXACTLY what your dilema is. Since you're having problems with dealers, I am guessing none of them actually sell USC conversions.

If it's not too far, call the Firearm Exchange in Westland (don't have number handy) they have USC conversions hanging on the wall.

Another thing, does your lower move to all positions or only to safe-semi. I believe the original USC trigger group can be installed, limiting selector movement to only 2-positions. This may help.

Lastly, you may have to just ship the lower separately. A dealer should be able to ship a fully assembled upper and perform the appropriate transfer for you. But give the guys over at FE a call, I'm sure they'll know what to do.

 

[kevins_garage]

It's probably just me, but this thread has me confused. What exactly is going on here? I live in MI and have no idea what DILEMMA you guys speak of.

Are you just trying to ship it out of the state for the heck of it?

Did you sell the USC/UMP to someone out of state and just need to ship it to that person's FFL?

If you're having problems because of the markings on the lower, why not just separate the lower and ship it separately as was already said?

Once you sell the USC/UMP, you are still going to have a green card on file with MSP. Just send them a registered letter indicating you sold the firearm with the information posted above from their website.

If I'm way off base, feel free to set me straight. As I said above, I am confused by what is trying to be accomplished here.