HKPRO Forums banner

1 - 20 of 66 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
So after about 7 weeks, I finally got my HK P7 back from Springer Precision. My previous thread on some of my concerns and some background into DiamondBlack is located here.

My initial impression of this coating is that it is fantastic. It is very durable and a very matte black. Some people say that the coating will make the surface more slippery, but I have not noticed this. In fact, with no lubrication, you can actually feel a bit of grittiness when there is metal of metal contact, such as the slide, trigger components, and grip cocker. I expect this feeling to go away once it gets lubricated and broken in with some range sessions.

Two interesting things that I noticed was that both the barrel and piston seemed to be coated in DiamondBlack, both things I was told (by the owner) couldn’t be done. The barrel was supposedly supposed to be pressed out of the frame so it wouldn’t contaminate the frame coating. Whether the barrel was pressed out or not, I do not know, but it was certainly coated. I actually prefer this, but it did come as a surprise. Whether or not the piston being coated will interfere with the operation of the handgun won’t be seen until I take it to the range next Thursday, but I’m not concerned. Operation of the slide by hand seems to be smooth and normal.

I also had some forward serrations cut into the slide, and I think they turned out very well: two on the left, and four on the right.







New springs and grips to be installed


Screws were in there nice and tight. They did not get along well with my screwdriver and some material was removed




Black Barrel




Looks like the spring is wearing the barrel right?


Nope. Wipes off with your finger


Serial Number can still be made out (one of my previous concerns)


With new grips





Questions? Concerns? Comments?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Non-HK related, but it is related to the DiamondBlack coating. I had a Galil bolt barrier with Krebs piston attached also done in DiamondBlack. I was told the piston would be removed for coating, but it wasn't. Again, I don't mind that it was coated, as long as it doesn't effect function. The last two photos show two abnormalities.




Weird green smear.


Rainbow colors smear on the bolt channel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,372 Posts
Very interesting on the wiping off of the barrel! Must be oil left
behind - looks like no wear on the barrel after the clean wipe!

Pretty impressive finish!

I have a heavily customized Hi-Power being built now, IonBond Diamond Black
from Springer, is the finish I went with, after seeing your P7 pictures I know I chose
the right finish for the project - cant wait till its done!

Thanks for the photos, well done ... your P7 build rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Very interesting on the wiping off of the barrel! Must be oil left
behind - looks like no wear on the barrel after the clean wipe!
It's actually metal deposited from the new spring. Rub the spring on there a few times and it shows up. There is a bit of grease that Springer applied to the barrel and piston that I had to wipe off.


Thanks for the photos, well done ... your P7 build rocks!
Many many thanks ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
219 Posts
I'm glad that you posted an update. Thank you. It turned out very nicely. I have a PSP on the way and know where I will send it if it needs refinishing. I've always thought IonBond DLC would be an excellent option for those looking to refinish a P7.

I have a couple of questions as follows: first, did Springer cut the forward cocking serrations? Second, did Springer do the disassembly and reassembly? third, only if you are comfortable answering, what did the job cost you?

Keep us posted on how it performs at the range and how the finish holds up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
Yes, Springer did do they forward cocking serrations. They also did the disassemble and reassembly.
The price was as follows:
DiamondBlack coating on P7 $350
Disassemble fee $75
DiamondBlack coating on 3 magazines $45
DiamondBlack coating on AK bolt carrier $75
Forward Cocking Serrations $60
Shipping and Handling (both ways) $85

The shipping would have been $140, but Springer has a deal with FedEx with a max rate of $85.

Not cheap, but totally worth it so far. I'll hopefully update from time to time on how the finish is holding up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,372 Posts
Is the surface smooth or a bit rough?

I heard it a bit smoother to the touch than parkerizing, but holds
oil very well. Looks like a dull dark gray when dry, black when oiled.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Is the surface smooth or a bit rough?
I heard it a bit smoother to the touch than parkerizing...
The finish is quite smooth to the touch, but like I mentioned earlier finish to finish contact had a bit of grittiness to it. I suspect this will go away with oil and a bit of break in. How it compares to parkerizing I cannot say for certain, as I don't have anything parkerized in front of me, but from memory Ionbond DiamondBlack is smoother.

...but holds
oil very well. Looks like a dull dark gray when dry, black when oiled.
I'm still waiting on my militec for the P7 (will be here tomorrow), but I just let the AK bolt carrier soak in CLP overnight and it turned a nice black color and is quite slick, even after using a cloth to remove all excess CLP. Unfortunately, I do not have access to the camera I used earlier so I can't provide any quality pics, but here is a cell phone shot. You can kind of see that the CLP'd bolt is darker than the dry P7, but the distinction is easier in person.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
153 Posts
I lifted this description of IonBond from John Harrison's website. For those who don't know, John Harrison is a leading 1911 gunsmith...

"IonBond DLC
IonBond DLC (stands for Diamond Like Carbon) is a hard black finish that is fairly new to the firearms market. It is a is a physical vapor deposition coating that has a 3-6 micron build up per surface (that's less than .005"). DLC can be applied to carbon steel, stainless steel, aluminum, over polished surfaces as well as matte surfaces. When bone-dry it is a dark charcoal color. With a little oil on it, it's black. It's hardness runs 70+ on the Rockwell "C" scale. I think it's the best all around option for a black firearms finish. It appears to be the equal to hard chrome in the durability and rust resistance departments. Black-T might be a better choice if rust resistance is the main criteria, like working in a salt water environment with no care given to wiping down every day or so, but in a less hostile climate or one with more care given, rust is a non-issue. There are a couple of peculiarites with DLC. It requires that the part be able to conduct an electrical charge, creating a problem in coating anodized aluminum. Anodizing is an insulator. If the aluminum is bare, it can be successfully coated with DLC. Type III hard coat anodizing might be a better choice for your aluminum frame than DLC in this respect: DLC (and hard chrome, too) is a little like an unpeeled hard-boiled egg. The exterior is fairly hard and tough, but because of the relative softness of the interior, that coating (or shell) is also a little bit brittle. Should an aluminum-framed pistol coated in such a manner be dropped and dented, the coating's adhesion with the substrate may be compromised. I don't consider that to be a huge deal. I understand that I've already made a compromise by selecting an aluminum frame to start with. I understand that aluminum is easier to dent than steel and I accept the risk. Anodizing penetrates the surface of the aluminum as well as building up the exterior. I'd recommend finishing your Lightweight Commander, for example, with Type III anodizing on the aluminum parts and DLC on the steel ones, getting the best of both worlds.


Another unique feature to know about DLC is that the shape of the part can have an impact on how the PVD process coats the part. For example, the shape of beavertail grip safeties can sometimes cause a faint, narrow "stripe" to be seen on the back side of the safety, where your hand goes. It changes appearance somewhat, due to light and the presence of oil. It is an anomaly that the IonBond people are trying to solve, but still shows up from time to time. I mention this because some guys after learning about DLC, get the idea that DLC is the modern day replacement for bluing and is superior is all regards. Well, it's not.


Bluing is a process where the parts are submerged in the salt bath and all surfaces are equally coated. The process for applying IonBond DLC requires that each part be tied to a wire that is hung from a fixturing tree after which a vacuum is drawn in the chamber and the atomized molecules are transferred through the vacuum to the negatively charged part being finished. It’s possible for a tiny speck of gray dust to land on a part at just the wrong time and a tiny white spot can occur. It’s something that IonBond works hard to avoid, but has been known to happen. If it does, the only thing that can be done is to abrasive blast the part until the finish is entirely stripped (which leaves the metal in a rough matte texture), then sand any polished surfaces back to whatever level they are supposed to be and send it back to IonBond to be recoated. IonBond will recoat the part at no charge. Were this a blued part, it could just be dipped a second time in many cases with no additional prep work. I will charge for any prep work involving sanding and any additional roll mark restoration needed. For this reason, I really recommend only doing matte IonBond finishes.


While DLC comes close to matching the appearance of bluing, it's not quite the equal in it's ability to have a consistent, uniform color, regardless of the shape of the part or the direction of the light. It also doesn't reflect light the same as bluing. It always looks a little hazy, just because it doesn’t reflect light the same way. If you're selecting a finish for your family heirloom, presentation grade pistol, where appearance is the chief concern, bluing is still the King. If you want a best of breed, black finish that excels in many areas and when durability is really important, DLC is the good stuff. "


KillerAngel, it looks to me like your P7 is "bone dry." I would be interested in seeing pictures after you wipe it down with an oily rag.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
KillerAngel, it looks to me like your P7 is "bone dry." I would be interested in seeing pictures after you wipe it down with an oily rag.
If by oily rag you mean Militec then yes, that will happen tomorrow...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
38 Posts
I used to have a 1911 with the ionbond finish and I really, really liked it. If I needed to re-finish a firearm that was going to be carried or used, this would be my first choice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,187 Posts
Impressive and nicely done! Makes me want to pick up a used/beater P7 then have it refinished in ionbond just for kicks. If you don't mind me asking, what's the cost of the process, and how long does it take to complete the refinish?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #15

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,040 Posts
Yes, Springer did do they forward cocking serrations. They also did the disassemble and reassembly.
The price was as follows:
DiamondBlack coating on P7 $350
Disassemble fee $75
DiamondBlack coating on 3 magazines $45
DiamondBlack coating on AK bolt carrier $75
Forward Cocking Serrations $60
Shipping and Handling (both ways) $85

The shipping would have been $140, but Springer has a deal with FedEx with a max rate of $85.

Not cheap, but totally worth it so far. I'll hopefully update from time to time on how the finish is holding up.
Jeez.

One can certainly see why people advise others to buy already finished guns. You could have bought an already refinished M8 for probably the same money or less than you have into your P7 PSP now, or an already refinished PSP for about 60% of the price that you own your P7 for now.

You must REALLY like that finish...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Good luck finding an Ionbond P7 for sale...

Me liking the finish had nothing to do with getting it, since I had never seen the finish before I went and had it done. It just fit my constraints for a finish.
Its also cheaper than Robar's NP3+ finish...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,040 Posts
Good luck finding an Ionbond P7 for sale...

Me liking the finish had nothing to do with getting it, since I had never seen the finish before I went and had it done. It just fit my constraints for a finish.
Its also cheaper than Robar's NP3+ finish...
Does NP3 cost $500 for a refinish? Even a top end Ford's Hard Chrome with polished accents isn't that much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
112 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Does NP3 cost $500 for a refinish?
NP3+ is $395 included 1 mag. Ionbond was $350, $365 if you include one mag. Springer also has cheaper shipping and they cut my forward serrations for much cheaper than Robar would. Robar does have their periodic special discounts, and disassembly/reassembly would be cheaper (if not included in the price).

Never even seen a P7 with the FCS, nice touch.
Thanks. Some people pass them off as a "tactical" feature, but I find them very very very useful on the small slide of the P7.
 
1 - 20 of 66 Posts
Top