I saw a video from HK where he takes one of their rifle's and fires it after being under the water and then does the same thing with an AR I'm not sure the brand and when he does the whole upper receiver blew off a big chunk leaving the BCG exposed. So would a clone of an HK either ceteme or ptr or whoever else be able to withstand the same abuse as a full blooded HK
Is a clone just as durable?
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There is not another HK manufacturing facility other than the one in Oberndorf,Germany . The video you saw was not an HK clone , but a standard competitors rifle . Will a clone withstand the same use ? Most probably will. Will they withstand the same abuse ? Who knows .
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3,063 Posts
Apples to oranges. The video compares AR types, HK's gas piston vs impingement. Your question compares roller delayed rifles to roller delayed rifles. Big difference from every angle.
I predict the result would be equal for any maker of roller against roller in any test such as one similar to the one you reference in the AR video.
I predict the result would be equal for any maker of roller against roller in any test such as one similar to the one you reference in the AR video.
Well I'm considering trying to get a clone cause I don't wanna pay up the price for a HK 91. After watching their facility testing on line I am a believer in the HK line. I just didn't know if clones produced by other companies were as strong and reliable.
I'll try to I'm not to tech savvy. It on YouTube if you enter HK torture test it should show up with a guy in a wet suit. But I'll try to
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428 Posts
Nobody, i think you confused people without knowing. Clone is usually the term for roller locked versions of HK copies. The 416 has only one clone and that is the Titan AFAIK. But as far as RL clones go, if the builder is good, they'll last as long as HK guns
But I saw that I have a helmet like that laying around. Old TIG helmet
But I saw that I have a helmet like that laying around. Old TIG helmet
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2,094 Posts
I would never take a chance on a clone for protection now shooting at a range for fun and what not that is about it.
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That logic makes no sense to me. If the gun functions reliably at a range, why would it not in a self-defense scenario?
I'm guessing you mean a roller clone?
A roller lock clone will be as good as the parts that built it. When manufacturing has changed or quality control isn't as high you won't get a great gun. Like parts made of sindered metal instead of machined. If you bought a hk parts kit and a lsc flat and a good builder with the correct tools you should get a gun that runs as well as an hk and delivers bullets as accurately.
I would also feel 100% confident in a correctly built gun full of rcm parts.
A roller lock clone will be as good as the parts that built it. When manufacturing has changed or quality control isn't as high you won't get a great gun. Like parts made of sindered metal instead of machined. If you bought a hk parts kit and a lsc flat and a good builder with the correct tools you should get a gun that runs as well as an hk and delivers bullets as accurately.
I would also feel 100% confident in a correctly built gun full of rcm parts.
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2,094 Posts
To each there own I would never take that chance when comes to defending yourself with a clone. You would so it's simple logic really you trust a non-HK clone as I would not I will stick to my HK guns and pass on clones.
Sorry for the confusion on the topic I see that I should have elaborated more on a RB clone. I have been looking in to PTR but I'm just not sure when there are others to chose from. I have always wanted an HK91 and I can justify the price I just can't she'll it out. So I may just keep dreaming and maybe one day I'll have it
Because it's a clone built who knows where. It's certainly OK to shoot a clone at the range, & should it jam, no big deal. But should it fail in a self defense situation, you could be dead. Please do not confuse a contract gun such as a HK licensed gun made in Pakistan, or Turkey with a clone gun built by PTR, any of TB's companies, or Bubba. GARY
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2,219 Posts
Lot of narrow-minded views in here apparently. My MP5 clone, built from an A2 kit by Jeff at Parabellum, has been flawless with all kinds of ammo. I would have no problem if I needed something in a self-defense situation, and it was all I had available. That said, I don't keep it loaded by my nightstand. But to simply say "Its a copy of another firearm, dont use it" is silly. People buy Hi-Point and Taurus guns all day long, and I think they're better as paperweights than pistols- but they're free to make that choice.
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847 Posts
Well, assuming you aren't planning on storming any enemy positions with it, I think you'd be well served by the PTR. I picked up a PTR 91 GI when I stumbled on a great deal (got it for around $600 in a crazy sale). I've swapped the furniture for black HK furniture, put on a wide handguard with a bipod (which I'm pretty sure isn't HK built, but I got it cheap also), threw in a full auto bolt carrier (also PTR). It runs great with my sear pack, chugging through brass and steel cased ammo with no issues. I also procured a UB training bolt and about 5,000 rounds of DAG blue plastic training ammo, which the gun seems to love as well (it's extremely fun in full auto, let me tell you, most of the sound and fury of .308 but way less recoil).
Here's the deal, if you want a German HK91 and nothing else will do, save your pennies and buy one (typically can be had for $2400 thereabouts, plus or minus). If you want a .308 roller lock gun to shoot at the range and have fun with, get a PTR and don't worry about it.
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3,706 Posts
These roller-locked HK-style "clones" ARE NOT made by HK GmbH in German. Those are the only HK-style weapons that meet the original designer/manufacturer specifications.
HK GmbH has ZERO CONTROL over how the "licensee" makers from Pakistan, Greece, Iran, etc make their products and the materials and quality is all over the map. That license agreement is between Germany and the host country NOT WITH HK. A quick look at all the problems with "clones" posted on HK Pro will give you some idea of the quality of these copies. It is rare to see posts on other than operator or ammo issues with genuine Oberndorf-built HK's.
That being said there are those who have reliable clones and swear by them but that is the exception versus the rule in my experience. I witnessed many issues with clone parts failures (bolt heads, firing pins, barrels, even locking pieces) that I never saw in a "real" HK weapon.
HK's failure to offer a German-made roller-locked rifles in the US opened the door to these clone makers filling that void. Can't blame them. No one can argue the vast difference in purchase price for the HK90-series that are no longer made - supply and demand and the supply was shut off years ago.
The clones sellers will tell you they are made on HK tooling or to HK specs or are "as good as" but it is simply not true. HK GmbH stands alone as THE quality manufacturer of these roller-locked guns and anything else is a compromise in quality and performance. Having tools and parts does not make a genuine HK product.
G3Kurz
HK GmbH has ZERO CONTROL over how the "licensee" makers from Pakistan, Greece, Iran, etc make their products and the materials and quality is all over the map. That license agreement is between Germany and the host country NOT WITH HK. A quick look at all the problems with "clones" posted on HK Pro will give you some idea of the quality of these copies. It is rare to see posts on other than operator or ammo issues with genuine Oberndorf-built HK's.
That being said there are those who have reliable clones and swear by them but that is the exception versus the rule in my experience. I witnessed many issues with clone parts failures (bolt heads, firing pins, barrels, even locking pieces) that I never saw in a "real" HK weapon.
HK's failure to offer a German-made roller-locked rifles in the US opened the door to these clone makers filling that void. Can't blame them. No one can argue the vast difference in purchase price for the HK90-series that are no longer made - supply and demand and the supply was shut off years ago.
The clones sellers will tell you they are made on HK tooling or to HK specs or are "as good as" but it is simply not true. HK GmbH stands alone as THE quality manufacturer of these roller-locked guns and anything else is a compromise in quality and performance. Having tools and parts does not make a genuine HK product.
G3Kurz
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