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Greetings, I have a P2000sk and was wondering if there's generally a number of rounds that go through the gun at which point maybe reliability decreases, if at all.
If there are zero issues at x number of rounds - is there a point when there will be the occasional jam or misfire? Is it 800, 1000, 5000, 8,000?
Just wondering how many rounds I can put through the gun before I have to think about less than 99.5% (or whatever the real number is) reliability.
Are all H&K's created equal, or does a particular model hold up better at that certain number than when a lesser model might start to act up?
Thanks
 

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If I were to guess, I'd say the USPs hold up to punishment well, if not best. It would, If for no other reason than the type of duel spring recoil system.

Point of failure: Assuming recommended maintenance, springs, and cleanings ... Well, I believe Todd Green got over 90k through P30, and 50k on an HK45.
I believe I remember reading on this forum of a USP 45 that had over 400k through it, and was still going strong.
I don't remember a shoot to failure test on a P2000sk.

Rest assured, your HK will give you years of continual service.

I realize you asked about reliability degradation, but there is an overlap between degradation and failure due to parts failure. Assuming regular maintenance and occasional proper cleaning, I would assume until stress breaks in the frame.

If you are replacing parts (including worn mags.) on a regular basis, what else is there to cause a malfunction?
That is assuming we are eliminating ammo from this equation.

Just a guess

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How could there possibly be a specific number for this with all of the variables involved - ammo type, cleaning schedule and practices, storage conditions, even things like where you live for humidity, salt air, etc.
All I know is I owned a USP in 40S&W from about 1997 or 1998 until this year and ran about 50K through it and it was still going strong when I sold it. I never changed a single part on it and it was still 100% reliable.
 

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How could there possibly be a specific number for this with all of the variables involved - ammo type, cleaning schedule and practices, storage conditions, even things like where you live for humidity, salt air, etc.
All I know is I owned a USP in 40S&W from about 1997 or 1998 until this year and ran about 50K through it and it was still going strong when I sold it. I never changed a single part on it and it was still 100% reliable.
USP is a tank.


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Discussion Starter #7
How could there possibly be a specific number for this with all of the variables involved - ammo type, cleaning schedule and practices, storage conditions, even things like where you live for humidity, salt air, etc.
All I know is I owned a USP in 40S&W from about 1997 or 1998 until this year and ran about 50K through it and it was still going strong when I sold it. I never changed a single part on it and it was still 100% reliable.
I agree with you but there's no "variables" chart out there where you can plug in different scenarios. I'm just looking for ballpark numbers but the consensus so far is they're just damn reliable and the shot counts are very high. Thanks!
 

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If I were to guess, I'd say the USPs hold up to punishment well, if not best. If for no other reason than the type of duel spring recoil system.

Point of failure: Assuming recommend maintenance, springs, and cleanings ... Well, I believe Todd Green got over 90k through P30, and 50k on an HK45.
I believe I remember reading on this forum of a USP 45 that had over 400k through it, and was still going strong.
I don't remember a shoot to failure test on a P2000sk.

Rest assured, your HK will give you years of continual service.

I realize you asked about reliability degradation, but there is an overlap between degradation and failure due to parts failure. Assuming regular maintenance and occasional proper cleaning, I would assume until stress breaks in the frame.

If you are replacing parts (including worn mags.) on a regular basis, what else is there to cause a malfunction?
That is assuming we are eliminating ammo from this equation.

Just a guess

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Thanks!
 

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Imagine a Diesel engine, which had sleeved cylinders. Assuming you did all regular maintenance, changed out all parts at regular intervals ( not at point of failure). You could conceivably change out the sleeves periodically, and run that vehicle until that vehicle obtained stress fractures in the frame or block.


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Well, I believe Todd Green got over 90k through P30, and 50k on an HK45.
Well to clarify the HK45 test was planned for 50,000 rounds and there was only one malfunction in that a spring broke but when the test was done the pistol was working perfectly, still extremely accurate, and ready for many more tens of thousands of rounds. The P30 test was stopped after the frame started to break but this was a P30 being subjected to lot of range sessions shooting a lot of ammo in short period of time.

pistol-training.com » Blog Archive » HK45 Endurance Test: Week Thirty Seven
 

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Assuming that failure to function is not due to neglect of maintenance, stoppages are random events. Until wear and tear on a gun is significant enough that it affects tolerances and function, like it happened with ToddG's P30 at some 85, 000+ rounds. That said, the probability of parts breakage due to wear does increase with mileage, no rocket science here. Which is why my 24,5000 round P30 is a practice gun and 1000 round P30 is a carry gun.
 

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What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
 

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I agree with you but there's no "variables" chart out there where you can plug in different scenarios. I'm just looking for ballpark numbers but the consensus so far is they're just damn reliable and the shot counts are very high. Thanks!
That's because of the millions of rounds you'd have to fire to make any sort of trend. Then test again with multiple guns to make sure it wasn't just that gun. Then do it all over with all the options for different guns (P30, P30SK, P30L, safety or no, trigger versions, etc. then multiply by the variety of ammo available.

Lets say the mean rounds before failure (MRBF) is 75k. Now you have 3 frame lengths, 2 safety options, and half a dozen triggers. 3*2*6=36 gun variations. OK some combinations aren't available so lets call it 25, even if you cut it down to, oh, 6 most common options, that's 75k*6 = 450k. Now lets say you're testing cleaning intervals of 100 rounds, 500 rounds, 1000 rounds, 2000 rounds. you're up to 1.8m rounds. That's a sample size of one, to be remotely indicative of a trend you ought to repeat the test a few times. lets say 5 of each and we're up to 9m rounds. now lets come up with some other variables: rate of fire (barrel temp), powder load, powder type, bullet weight, grip of the shooter, whether it's carried or not, physical trauma (of varying degrees). Now multiply that by how many different guns HK makes... If you want to start sending donations, I'd love to start testing:28:
 

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What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
Isn't this the "official" answer, as much as there can be one? Send your pistol back to HK for full servicing every 10,000 rounds. If they conclude that the pistol is beyond the point at which parts can be replaced to return the gun to reliable spec, they'll say so. Maybe -- probably -- that will never happen. But this would seem to be the correct way to ensure that your HK is in fighting form -- not waiting for some arbitrary round count number.
 

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Assuming that failure to function is not due to neglect of maintenance, stoppages are random events. Until wear and tear on a gun is significant enough that it affects tolerances and function, like it happened with ToddG's P30 at some 85, 000+ rounds. That said, the probability of parts breakage due to wear does increase with mileage, no rocket science here. Which is why my 24,5000 round P30 is a practice gun and 1000 round P30 is a carry gun.
Have the same philosophy. I have one for heavy dry firing and range work. The other is light usage and carry. I've already broken a sear spring on the range gun at about 10k rounds, but I can't really account for the thousands of dry fires.


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What HK factory personnel told me is any HK pistol that your life depends upon, such as for duty or defense, should be sent to them every 10,000 rounds. They will replace springs, wear parts, check out the entire pistol and replace anything out of spec. They went on to say you can go to 15,000 rounds but their solid recommendation for a serious business pistol is 10,000 rounds. Pistols only used for range shooting can go much higher. Bill
The only problem with the above is expense . I shoot 12 to 16 hundred rounds a month and the last time I shipped a gun it was 80 bucks one way.
 

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The only problem with the above is expense . I shoot 12 to 16 hundred rounds a month and the last time I shipped a gun it was 80 bucks one way.
What is the problem, you are spending a hell of a lot more on ammo then the maintenance required to keep it functioning properly.
 

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I have about 20k rounds through my VP9 in the last year and it's still going strong . I am going to give it an "overhaul " at the end of the Season to freshen it up
 

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I'm going to try and anchor this back to a land of reality.

NO semi automatic pistol of any design likes to run dry/without lube. Glock, HK, whatever. If you run a pistol dry at any round count you are running below optimum level. For some reason the extra fowling of the 45 ACP makes things worse. I've seen agencies send multiple recruits with the USP 45 and watched them all start with the failure to feed problems at nearly the same point. Same goes for the Glock 21's and the Sig 220's (regardless of new or W. German). This is due to the lack of care and if/when care is provided it's at the mercy of the garbage the agency/range provides.

On the flip side of that coin, it's not hard to know how to properly lube your weapon and have it be slick and wet after 5000 rounds; I've done this multiple times at 3 and 4 day trainings and have no concerns about the gun.

Old saying: take care of your kit and it will take care of you. It's nice to know what something could potentially do in theory; but I'll leave that to the internet sensations.
 
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