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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I had the following experience shooting my new (to me) PSP yesterday. I’m not new to ammo picky pistols, but this somewhat extreme was new to me. As mentioned in the list I made elsewhere - I’m not one to blame tools or equipment but for whatever reason this pistol and the Remington Ammo did not get along...


Left side (1/3/5) are PPU 124gr, 45 rounds total between the 3 dots, all at 40ft distance. Same with the 5 head shots (those were at a faster pace).

Right side is the Remington “Range” 115gr 2/6 at 40ft, 4 at 25ft. 50 rounds total between the 3 dots.

Same shooter, pistol, range, day. The numbered dots are 3in diameter. All shots are free-hand (unsupported, two-hand conventional automatic grip).

Even if fouling or heat somehow contributed marginally to accuracy, it wouldn’t account for the differences in spread between dot 2 and dot 5. 2 was the last of the Remington, 5 the first of the PPU. Shot less than 5 mins apart. Same distance, the target did not move between. Pacing was the same at approx 1 - 1.5 sec between shots, 5 shot volleys per Mag (alternating 2 mags back to back before reloading). I wasn’t rushing the matter not being too fast - just my average pacing to reacquire sights before the next shot (no double-taps or the like).

Other notes on the Remington: there were numerous bulged cases by the rim (I wasn’t looking for it but it was SO apparent I made a note of it - best guess 15% of rounds fired), and looking at the cardboard behind the paper, there were a few of what could only be construed as partial keyholes.


I’m curious as to what this community thinks objectively. I’m not a novice shooter. I train regularly, have taken a multitude of stress inducing classes, and would consider myself a competent shooter. I shoot in excess of 10k rounds per year (and probably dry-fire 3-4x that), and have good fundamentals. I’m by no means an expert but feel in this case this is an ammunition issue not a shooter issue.
 

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Teufelshund Tactical
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From years of owning, shooting and servicing P7 series pistols, I will tell you that besides being fastidious in your maintenance, including using the scraper tool and brush each time you shoot, the nest thing you can do is shoot quality 115-124 grain ammo, the cleaner the better. Deviating from this will lead to problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
From years of owning, shooting and servicing P7 series pistols, I will tell you that besides being fastidious in your maintenance, including using the scraper tool and brush each time you shoot, the nest thing you can do is shoot quality 115-124 grain ammo, the cleaner the better. Deviating from this will lead to problems.
I am a meticulous cleaner by nature. This pistol was thoroughly cleaned both before and after this session (as it is a new acquisition of mine). This of course includes the piston and cylinder. I am an avid M1A and Garand shooter - servicing of gas systems is second hand to me.

The PPU 124gr is my go-to range Ammo. I have a pretty descent stockpile, but I purchased the Remington crap at the range (I had not shot this particular Ammo previously) to save my stock. I took a box of mine in case I ran into issues to compare (which proved to be fortuitous). As a side note the Remington is DIRTY Ammo. Immense levels of fouling accumulated relative to the low round count (I fled stripped prior to shooting the PPU to look for mechanical issues based on result and made that mental note as well). I’ll likely never run that Ammo again, through anything.
 

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Teufelshund Tactical
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I'll jokingly simplify it: I own several P7s. I own a couple of Porsches. I don't piss in the gas tank. I don't put crap ammo in my mags.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'll jokingly simplify it: I own several P7s. I own a couple of Porsches. I don't piss in the gas tank. I don't put crap ammo in my mags.
I’ll jokingly retort. I didn’t realize this particular first run Ammo, otherwise held in higher regard than, say, WWB, was complete crap.
I put 93 in my VW Golf R, or my Mercedes, but I do appreciate the snobby German car name drop lol. I prefer Shell, but sometimes have to run Speedway. I obviously try not to.

Lesson learned.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I'll jokingly simplify it: I own several P7s. I own a couple of Porsches. I don't piss in the gas tank. I don't put crap ammo in my mags.
I should also mention so as not to be Mis-interpreted, I do genuinely appreciate the playful banter and dry sarcasm. I love the car analogy (another passion of mine). I at one time (in Colorado) built a 2004 Audi A4 1.8t into a monster 465AWHP (uncorrected for 5300ft of elevation) monster (Mustang dyno)with the 4-banger turbo at just over 1.9L (strokes via crank but not bored). Huge passion of mine! Sorry to go off topic just wanted to clear the air.
 

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The ammo you are using is not known for accuracy.

I shoot the following ammo in my P7's, in this order of preference:

1. MEN
2. Speer Lawman
3. Federal AE

All 124 gr.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
The ammo you are using is not known for accuracy.

I shoot the following ammo in my P7's, in this order of preference:

1. MEN
2. Speer Lawman
3. Federal AE

All 124 gr.
I would certainly agree on the Remington front...never again with that stuff.

PPU has been good for me in 124gr unilaterally (I run it in 1911s, Sigs, Glocks, CZs, a Tavor, and many others...and this pistol certainly liked it). I’ve shot both the Speer Lawman and Federal AE and my other pistols have liked those. I haven’t shot MEN 9mm but do shoot their surplus M193 5.56 and love that stuff.

PD Ammo I run based on individual firearm. Some run Gold Dots, some Sig V-Crown, some HSTs - just depends on the platform (all 124 or 147 depending - some suppressed).


I should also have mentioned in my initial post I LOVE this pistol. It’s everything I was hoping it would be and more! Super flat shooting, accurate, ergonomically superior to many despite its unique configuration. There will be more in my future now that I’ve had a taste!

Lastly, this post was meant to be informative and get inputs on others experiences - hopefully folks learn from my poor experience with the Remington Range Ammo - and likewise I am taking notes on what others have had successes with.

Added a pic since I’m a happy new owner...
 

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Priest of the P7
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Remington ammo is shlt. I quit buying it about ten years ago. IMO it’s on par with WWB.
In addition to MEN and Speer Lawman — my first choices — I’ve also had good results with Sellier & Bellot and magtec.
 
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Discussion Starter #10
Remington ammo is shlt. I quit buying it about ten years ago. IMO it’s on par with WWB.
In addition to MEN and Speer Lawman — my first choices — I’ve also had good results with Sellier & Bellot and magtec.
Proof positive on my pic in post 1!
S&B 124 has historically worked for me as well.

I’m seeing a lot of MEN inputs so when the world regains a bit of sanity I’m certainly going to seek that out.
 

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Proof positive on my pic in post 1!
S&B 124 has historically worked for me as well.

I’m seeing a lot of MEN inputs so when the world regains a bit of sanity I’m certainly going to seek that out.
S&B, MEN and Magtech are all owned by CBC now.

Does anyone know the actual load/brand the the Germans used in their Police P7's
MEN has supplied the Bundeswehr, police, federal police and the federal customs administration since 1957
 

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The ammo you are using is not known for accuracy.

I shoot the following ammo in my P7's, in this order of preference:

1. MEN
2. Speer Lawman
3. Federal AE

All 124 gr.
Does MEN make good defensive 9mm hollow points? I'm not being a wise guy, I legitimately don't know what's available from them aside from NATO FMJ.

I know they make some of the best 7.62 NATO ball ammo for G3 style rifles known to man. IWK and DAG too.
 

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Has anyone chrono’d the MEM ammo out of a P7 ?
I’ve set aside some 124 gr pills loaded to 1050 to 1100 FPS as my psp food.


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My P7M13 is picky and only likes hotter rounds.

147gr HSTs; misfeed about 1/20
147gr American Eagle RN was about 1/10
124gr NATO Winchester white box, no issues
 

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Just got some 124gr pills in to reload. What is the load you are using? Just for reference!
Hey, just saw this, my light loads for 124 pills are 5.65 gr of HS-6. Pal is 1.150”
I have some 115 gr with same charge also marked P7, will cycle PTR.


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Priest of the P7
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My P7M13 is picky and only likes hotter rounds.

147gr HSTs; misfeed about 1/20
147gr American Eagle RN was about 1/10
124gr NATO Winchester white box, no issues
Although it has been disputed by some, the unequivocal experts on the design, function, and maintenance of the P7 series of pistols advise rather strongly against the use of 147gr ammo.
 
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