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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
HI guys......It is time to put a .308 in my tool box. I have been doing the
research for about a month. Only recently was a PTR-91 mentioned to me.
At this time I only have 3 rifles in the safe. An M4 , Romanian Sidefolding
AK 7.62x39 and an Arsenal milled AK (7.60 x 39 ) with Kobra red dot sight. The AK is good out to 250 yards then the trajectory sucks and it looses steam.
I am going to sell the Arsenal to get a .308. I need something more accurate
that is a performer out to 500 meters.
I hit a coupe of gun shops yesterday looking at AR 10's, M1A's and I did find
one clone.
It was a CETME and it was rough. Kind of tinney ( ?) not in good shape,
the trigger was nasty, but probably priced right at 575.00.
This will probably be my only .308 so I have to get it right on the first
purchase. The budget is 1100.00 or less. It will be a weapon that
will be fitted with a scope or ACOG and I want the irons to be useable
when the optics are taken off.
Suggestions ??
 

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For under 1100 Id go with the JLD version of the HK. It is going to be hard to find an M1A for that price range and I would stay away from the lesser HK clones. The various AR10 type rifles are ok range rifles, generally accurate but none of that series has been known for stellar reliability. The M1A will probably have the best trigger, but again the rifles are more expensive, use alot of cast parts now and the magazines are expensive.
 

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With the budget you have set for yourself, get on gunbroker and find the PTR91 that you like. The Cetmes are junk. The PTR is available in the 16 or 18 inch barrel and the weapon should accept all factory HK components. You may be able to find a Springfield 91 clone for the same money but I do not know as much about them and would rather have the 16 inch heavy PTR barrel anyway. Hope this helps. Good luck with your purchase.
 

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275 Posts
I agree with the PTR suggestions, but you may also want to consider the DPMS LR-308. It comes in a variety of barrel lengths, and the reviews by people who have bought them have been very good. Check DPMS's site and AR15.com for more info on them.

Thanks,
James
 

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+1 on the PTR. Now to add another choice: have you thought of a FAL or clone?
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
+1 on the PTR. Now to add another choice: have you thought of a FAL or clone?
Yes I have been on FAL files and I don't feel they are as sound with
their optics mount. It is like mounting on tin, little wobbly. So far
most of the coments on the different boards have been that the AR 10
is the the best platform for optics. Other coments are they are
2 MOA guns for the most part. Still pondering on all of the options.
The M1a has a great trigger and accuracy, but I would have to purchase a 150.00 optics rail that would render the irons un-useable if I wanted
to take the scope off.
 

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Yes I have been on FAL files and I don't feel they are as sound with
their optics mount. It is like mounting on tin, little wobbly. So far
most of the coments on the different boards have been that the AR 10
is the the best platform for optics. Other coments are they are
2 MOA guns for the most part. Still pondering on all of the options.
The M1a has a great trigger and accuracy, but I would have to purchase a 150.00 optics rail that would render the irons un-useable if I wanted
to take the scope off.
Unless you go bolt gun route, you are going to be hard pressed to find a sub moa rifle on the given budget. If you are not dead set on the "battle rifle" take a look at Rem 700pss or something along those lines. You can find a great bolt gun that is sub moa for around $700. If you are dead set on semi, then the PTR is probably your best bet.
 

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I agree with the PTR suggestions, but you may also want to consider the DPMS LR-308. It comes in a variety of barrel lengths, and the reviews by people who have bought them have been very good. Check DPMS's site and AR15.com for more info on them.

Thanks,
James
+1

The LR-308 AP4 was the rifle of the year for 06 in American Rifleman (or maybe 05 or 07?). Anyway, It's basically a .308 caliber M4. It costs s bit more than a standard DPMS LR-308 but is pretty damn nice. I think you might be able to achieve the sub-MOA with one of these.

Anyway, that's only if you want an AR rifle. Otherwise, get the PTR-91. ;)

Bear in mind though that the HK-91 mags (that the PTR uses) are less than $5 for slightly used factory mags. That kicks ass.
 

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Yes I have been on FAL files and I don't feel they are as sound with
their optics mount. It is like mounting on tin, little wobbly.
I have an DSA STG58 with DSA's HD scope mount and it is rock solid. I also have HK clones with an MFI rail mount and B&T universal mount, which are both very good as well. Of all three, the DSA FAL mount is the most solid with the B&T HK mount a close second.

My M1A wears an Smith Enterprise rail mount, when combined with a QD scope mount, allows the use of the iron sights. As already pointed out, the M1A is by far the most expensive of the .308 options.

CDNN has the PTR-91 listed for $900, which probably the best deal going right now.

Best of luck.
 
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
It doesn't have to be sub MOA, but I am looking for something
more accurate than the AK that's for sure.
Here is one post from the FAL Files :

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FAL's suck for long range(400m+) accuracy(blah blah blah start the flaming)
I have a nice G1 and its great. I really dont like AR's very much for a few reasons.......mostly because almost every ignorant ex-military or wannabe thinks its the only good gun cuz thats what our boys use. Second they are not nearly as rugged as a FAL,G3 or AK(own those too)

But the bottom line is a good flat top AR10 will shoot sub MOA out of the box.

AR flat tops have a REAL solid scope mount unlike some goofy bolt cover/scope mount that is held by screws(we're talking .308 here people not a .22)

A FAL wont come even close to that without a HUGE amount of bull****.

A gun shooting 2 inch groups at 100yds is a pretty sad weapon at 400yds(8inch or worse)........that could very well equal a miss ........which means they/it heard the shot and is taking evasive action.

You wont be getting a very good follow up shot with an aware person who just got shot at.

Stay tuned for the FAL cattle to tell you otherwise

**********************************************************
Actually I was entertaining the STG 58 with a Rail on top.
As far as a bolt gun I can always get one of those after the election.
Now is the time to shop for Semi-auto's and mags.
 

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I have had fals, was not a huge fan, I have a DPMS AP4 in 308 and a HK91 clone (FMP xg3s). I would stay with the PTR, it is just MHO
 

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I'd do a Genuine FN-FAL Paratrooper with DSA accessories!

I would get a genuine FN Paratrooper with DSA accessories like the short gas system, the Rail forend, the Rail/top cover/scope mount, and a folding stock!

I'd be careful of clones. I'd rather save up and get the best.
 

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Maybe go to the local gunstore and try out for feel a few of your choices.

While you didn't mention it here, another option is the Saiga in 308. It is robust and as accurate as the rest, and some examples will shoot VERY well with properly tuned loads. You would have enough money left over for a decent E. Bloc scope also. And then you could buy a steak. And some ammo. Some magazines. Maybe a beer.
 

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I just picked up an "IC" dated code HK91 in about 95% cosmetic condition for $1600. If you can wait till a you can find a deal (like I did) you may be able to increase your budget and get an authentic rifle.
 

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I would get a genuine FN Paratrooper with DSA accessories like the short gas system, the Rail forend, the Rail/top cover/scope mount, and a folding stock!

I'd be careful of clones. I'd rather save up and get the best.
Unfortunately, the DS ARMS FN/FAL you mention would cost about $1,800 to $2,000, which is above the $1,100 the guy wants to spend. Also, the rilfe you are talking about is still a 300 meter or less rifle. Accuracy for a para model gets pretty sloppy out to about 500 meters and beyond. If you want a long-range gun, stick with a bolt 308, or upgrade to a .408 Cheyenne tactical rifle. I have a custom Noveske AR-10 sniper rifle and it carries .25 MOA at 100 meters. The gun is accurate and a capable (thanks to a 24-inch bull barrel) of hitting and taking down targets at 1,000 meters and a little beyond.

The price for something in that performance range is pushing almost $3,500.00, including optics. I am waiting on a custom .408 Cheyenne Tactical rifle from Ordnance Research.

Happy searching.....
 

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It doesn't have to be sub MOA, but I am looking for something
more accurate than the AK that's for sure.
Here is one post from the FAL Files :

*********************************************************
FAL's suck for long range(400m+) accuracy(blah blah blah start the flaming)
I have a nice G1 and its great. I really dont like AR's very much for a few reasons.......mostly because almost every ignorant ex-military or wannabe thinks its the only good gun cuz thats what our boys use. Second they are not nearly as rugged as a FAL,G3 or AK(own those too)

But the bottom line is a good flat top AR10 will shoot sub MOA out of the box.

AR flat tops have a REAL solid scope mount unlike some goofy bolt cover/scope mount that is held by screws(we're talking .308 here people not a .22)

A FAL wont come even close to that without a HUGE amount of bull****.

A gun shooting 2 inch groups at 100yds is a pretty sad weapon at 400yds(8inch or worse)........that could very well equal a miss ........which means they/it heard the shot and is taking evasive action.

You wont be getting a very good follow up shot with an aware person who just got shot at.

Stay tuned for the FAL cattle to tell you otherwise

**********************************************************
Actually I was entertaining the STG 58 with a Rail on top.
As far as a bolt gun I can always get one of those after the election.
Now is the time to shop for Semi-auto's and mags.
I read that thread also, and if I recall correctly, that guy cought quiet a bit of flak on that statement. I'd strongly consider the FAL platform. I'd say it's the best all around rifle. The PTR may be a bit more accurate, but its got a heavy barrel. Great for shooting off the bench, but less than ideal for carrying around. With the DSA scope mount, the mounting issues seem to be resolved. I have no personal experience with the DSA mount though. I'd hazard to say that the DSA is a better FAL than the PTR is a G3 (and yes, I've got them both). The SA/STG 58 is pretty much an exact copy of the original, in whatever configuration you may want. Some say the DSA product is better than the original. The PTR looses me with the heavy barrel. Heavy barrels on a semi auto are great if you want a bench gun, not much else. I'd say find a 91/G3 with a standard barrel or go withe the DSA product. I've also got an M1A Scout that I would grab before my PTR. I just think that PTR is missing the mark by not offering a standard barrel weight. To make matters worse, the handguard hanger contacts the free floated heavy barrel on the PTR!

Also, just like anything there are a buch of shadey FAL clones out there. Buy a DSA. Same goes for HK clones. I'd stick with PTR for a 91 and Vector for a 93. I hate to say it, but these brand new clones are a lot cleaner than my 30 year old original!
 

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The Cetmes are junk.
Sorry but I take issue with that statement. CETMEs are not junk. You can't call a rifle that is 75+% interchangeable with a G3/HK91 junk. Yes, the ones built by Century and a few others are pretty much junk but not all CETMEs. If you have reputable builder put one together for you or build one your self then you will have a great rifle.

I just had to clear that up.
 
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