Hey folks, I just got back from Blackwater for some training and I must say I was alittle disappointed to see so many Glocks and so little H&K"s. All you see everywhere is Glock 9mm and these guys can shoot like there is no tomorrow. I was also suprised to see so much 9mm being carried (Virginia Beach PD adjunct instructors, Navy Seals and SF etc... Yes, I understand that they get the 9mm ammo free, but alot of the guys seem to prefer it, stating...they can shoot tighter, faster patterns and can just control the gun better. I'm not trying to start a 9mm vs. 45 and Glock vs. H&K war...however I was alittle surprised. The training was awesome and I guess the gun and ammo come down to personal preference.
Just got back from Blackwater and I must say...
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First off, let me say that you're one lucky bastage to go to BW training.
Secondly, the first responder got it right. There are simply more glocks out there. Relatively cheap, fairly idiot-proof, and high reliability put them at the top of most PD's procurement list.
You can't argue with some of their reasoning either. The Glock's low bore axis makes it faster on target than the USP...hence their prevalence in competition. They're combat accurate and easy to strip for cleaning.
As for 9 vs 45? I'd rather not touch it
Personally, given the choice, I'll take the larger projectile every time (especially when confined to FMJ ball).
Secondly, the first responder got it right. There are simply more glocks out there. Relatively cheap, fairly idiot-proof, and high reliability put them at the top of most PD's procurement list.
You can't argue with some of their reasoning either. The Glock's low bore axis makes it faster on target than the USP...hence their prevalence in competition. They're combat accurate and easy to strip for cleaning.
As for 9 vs 45? I'd rather not touch it
Personally, given the choice, I'll take the larger projectile every time (especially when confined to FMJ ball).
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9mm is less expensive to train with. I know most trainees own a 45 or three.
Everybody discredits the 9mm from whats going on overseas... the problem is that the regular soldier is given standard ball ammo.
With modern bullet technology the 9mm is a whole other beast. You think any of the contractor carry ball ammo... Now the 9mm is not my choice, but I sure as heck dont want to get hit with it.
With modern bullet technology the 9mm is a whole other beast. You think any of the contractor carry ball ammo... Now the 9mm is not my choice, but I sure as heck dont want to get hit with it.
experience from Blackwater
One of the Instructors had specifically been involved in 4 deadly shootings and all with his glock 9mm. Of course these guys are not shooting ball ammo, they are shooting winchester sxt black talon, or gold dot spear. However i was just surprised to see so much 9mm/Glock. They didn't talk bad about H&K however. They seem to all say - You have more shots, easier to control and tighter groupings. Personally I think you have to be comitted to .45, because I think you have to practice alittle more and it's going to cost you more, even if you reload. Just preference I guess.
By the way...I just got my new usp 45 tac with the Combat LEM Trigger on it and it's very smooth, light with a great reset.
One of the Instructors had specifically been involved in 4 deadly shootings and all with his glock 9mm. Of course these guys are not shooting ball ammo, they are shooting winchester sxt black talon, or gold dot spear. However i was just surprised to see so much 9mm/Glock. They didn't talk bad about H&K however. They seem to all say - You have more shots, easier to control and tighter groupings. Personally I think you have to be comitted to .45, because I think you have to practice alittle more and it's going to cost you more, even if you reload. Just preference I guess.
By the way...I just got my new usp 45 tac with the Combat LEM Trigger on it and it's very smooth, light with a great reset.
I call BS...
:74: :74:
As to the BW course attendee, where are the photos and what course did you take?
What a joke... Are you trying to tell me that someone would actually waste their time training with 9mm but take 45 into a fight? I don't think so Tim. Another armchair warrior spreads his wings..... I've got news for you, when your ammo is free, you train with the caliber you fight with.
:74: :74:
As to the BW course attendee, where are the photos and what course did you take?
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"just back form Blackwater" ????lucky for some !! nothing like that here !!
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You sound like a ***** **** <edited by mod>, how do we know you are not an "armchair warrior"???
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yeah but he's right
specifics on Blackwater
The class I took was Extreme Officer survival- 3day class taught by 2 instructors. One was retired with four real life deadly shootings to draw from and one other instructor from SF experience and police experience and another Navy Seal guy with 12 years experience. This class was excellent. There is also a class that Erin Roberts(supposedly he just placed 10th in the Nationals) who teaches. Jam-up instructors, very no-nonence and professional. This class is a 3 day class taught by Erin Roberts called- Advanced Skills Handgun Course. The instructor is excellent, you go to this class, you will learn alot of the Tier-One training, with a mixed of the speed of competition but blended into real life combat. Great Class! Highly recommend it. http://www.blackwaterusa.com/images/pdf/Advanced Skills Handgun.pdf. You will shoot 500 rounds a day for 3 days but he will drill things in you hundreds of times over and over. Excellent techniques to take home. Huge Facility and great instructors. just save up and go once for one of the good classes. The Barracks you can sleep in are GREAT as well.
The class I took was Extreme Officer survival- 3day class taught by 2 instructors. One was retired with four real life deadly shootings to draw from and one other instructor from SF experience and police experience and another Navy Seal guy with 12 years experience. This class was excellent. There is also a class that Erin Roberts(supposedly he just placed 10th in the Nationals) who teaches. Jam-up instructors, very no-nonence and professional. This class is a 3 day class taught by Erin Roberts called- Advanced Skills Handgun Course. The instructor is excellent, you go to this class, you will learn alot of the Tier-One training, with a mixed of the speed of competition but blended into real life combat. Great Class! Highly recommend it. http://www.blackwaterusa.com/images/pdf/Advanced Skills Handgun.pdf. You will shoot 500 rounds a day for 3 days but he will drill things in you hundreds of times over and over. Excellent techniques to take home. Huge Facility and great instructors. just save up and go once for one of the good classes. The Barracks you can sleep in are GREAT as well.
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I was a glock hater, until I started using one extensively. It's now a 19 or 23 on the hip.
Glocks are great weapons. Simple, robust/reliable, quick and accurate. Why surprised? Almost all the BW contractors and instructors @ BW use Glocks exclusively, regardless of what agreements BW had made with Sig or HK for armorers course training or other training BW provides the facilities for. Part of the 8wk DSS class requires timed pistol work, all using Glocks and Safariland holsters. It is a great environment, glad you enjoyed it.
Glocks are great weapons. Simple, robust/reliable, quick and accurate. Why surprised? Almost all the BW contractors and instructors @ BW use Glocks exclusively, regardless of what agreements BW had made with Sig or HK for armorers course training or other training BW provides the facilities for. Part of the 8wk DSS class requires timed pistol work, all using Glocks and Safariland holsters. It is a great environment, glad you enjoyed it.
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