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just purchased h&k 45c. any laser suggestions. thanks.
While I agree insofar that a laser does not make up for poor marksmanship (nor should it ever serve to) I disagree in your assessment that it is a gimmick and not useful as a tool.Not to be an ass but I would say save your money. Lasers are more of a gimmick when it comes to practical shooting, you point shoot faster not to mention even some of the best lasers out there have a way of shooting themselves off zero. Now if its for a range dress up gun stick with either crimson trace or a streamlight....viridians are poo poo
Can you expand on this, I was looking between a Streamlight TLR-2 and a Viridan X5L.....viridians are poo poo
The focus of the laser is hit or miss with viridian from all the experience I have had with them and all the ones I have seen amoungst a large group of shooters. I have seen examples that expand to the size of a 1 inch circle as little as 20 feet from the device...couple that with very poor performance in cold conditions and its just not worth the money asked when there are better products for less. Shame too seeing as green is much more detectable to the human eye than redCan you expand on this, I was looking between a Streamlight TLR-2 and a Viridan X5L.
Ah, thank you. I saw a guy at the local range the other day with a Viridan C5L and green laser was defiantly easy to pick up even in the bright range but they just don't feel like they are built as well as Surefire.The focus of the laser is hit or miss with viridian from all the experience I have had with them and all the ones I have seen amoungst a large group of shooters. I have seen examples that expand to the size of a 1 inch circle as little as 20 feet from the device...couple that with very poor performance in cold conditions and its just not worth the money asked when there are better products for less. Shame too seeing as green is much more detectable to the human eye than red
In self defense shooting a laser is rarely going to be an element in the equation. Most of the time people will be lucky not to fumble getting their gun from their holster let alone turning their laser on or properly gripping the pressure switch (fine motor skills being the first thing to go in high stress), and yes point shooting is faster than laser aided. As a range toy they are fun...I have one but the problem with them on defense weapons is they become a crutch and people rely on them when the reality is its the last thing they should trust their life to. Now I will concede that for someone who has lots of familiarity, trigger time, and experience they are not a hinderance on a carry gun.While I agree insofar that a laser does not make up for poor marksmanship (nor should it ever serve to) I disagree in your assessment that it is a gimmick and not useful as a tool.
While a laser will not make up for poor grip and trigger control, it will allow a person to shoot with a decent degree of accuracy without having to align the iron sights. I am unsure of what type of "practical shooting" you are referring to, but if it comes to shooting a torso sized target at average self-defense distances under stress and possibly from an awkward position a laser can be used as an effective force multiplier.
Not to be an ass but I would say save your money. Lasers are more of a gimmick when it comes to practical shooting, you point shoot faster not to mention even some of the best lasers out there have a way of shooting themselves off zero. Now if its for a range dress up gun stick with either crimson trace or a streamlight....viridians are poo poo
My 2 cents. Lasers will not make up for poor grip, trigger, or sight alignment issues... the fundamentals of shooting H&K4life is dead on with that one. I made the mistake of thinking that a laser would do this for me back when I was a rookie... If you don't have the fundamentals down solid I would say get those down first before you go adding a laser, understand this; Your dominant can only focus on one thing, either the laser or the front sight... For me I HATED that my eyes went straight to my laser (Streamlight TLR2s) on the target and I could never concentrate on a sight picture.While I agree insofar that a laser does not make up for poor marksmanship (nor should it ever serve to) I disagree in your assessment that it is a gimmick and not useful as a tool.
While a laser will not make up for poor grip and trigger control, it will allow a person to shoot with a decent degree of accuracy without having to align the iron sights. I am unsure of what type of "practical shooting" you are referring to, but if it comes to shooting a torso sized target at average self-defense distances under stress and possibly from an awkward position a laser can be used as an effective force multiplier.
In no way am I trying to start some flame war over this just wanted to say they make them because the general population buys them. For a lot of people its a "cool" thing to have on your gun and the market followed...much like this god awful zombie BS that has oversaturated the firearm world in recent times (total side note, if HK ever makes a zombie anything I will cry and mourn their passing). But you are spot on Darebear with your assessment of threat response, everything happens fast.Bottom line. If lasers weren't practical then Crimson, Viridian, Surefire etc wouldn't waste time making them.
Hornady should be ashamed of themselves... Zombie ammo? Seriously? I like a good time just like anyone else and yea I've given thought to some kind, any kind of threat to our health being unleashed (i.e. bio warfare) but to actually make and market Zombie ammo... I have no words. THAT is a clear cut example that they make what we will buy.In no way am I trying to start some flame war over this just wanted to say they make them because the general population buys them. For a lot of people its a "cool" thing to have on your gun and the market followed...much like this god awful zombie BS that has oversaturated the firearm world in recent times (total side note, if HK ever makes a zombie anything I will cry and mourn their passing). But you are spot on Darebear with your assessment of threat response, everything happens fast.