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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

i'm very new to this forum and would like to say that this forum has a lot of great information. I recently purchased 2 HK pistols (HK45 and P2000 LEM). I have to say that both shoot very well and that i look forward to becoming a better shooter with them.

My question is about the LEM trigger mechanism. It feels great for sure. But i'm more concerned with the second trigger pull. In the event of a light strike or dead round, would you prefer to pull the trigger again or rack?

Thanks for your input.
 

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If I'm on the range I'd pull the trigger again.

If it's a true self defense situation I might pull it once and then move right to TRB (tap, rack, bang) since that's what I train to do.



--
Sent from my personal Droid. Please excuse any typos, my Droid's kinda stupid. (°_°)
 

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TRB. It's universal for all semi auto pistols. What you do on the range will transpire in the real world so don't mix range and real world techniques up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
good to know! thank you all!

PS: the HK45 still has a mighty big kick for me =(. it might be too big for me or i may just need more practice....or get stronger hah
 

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Failure To Fire=Tap Rack Bang
 

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TRB, or whatever you call your immediate action.

Afterwards, if you're interested in finding out if it's a light strike or dead primer, you can pick it up and try shooting again.
 

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good to know! thank you all!

PS: the HK45 still has a mighty big kick for me =(. it might be too big for me or i may just need more practice....or get stronger hah
The .45 isn't for everyone... doesn't mean there is anything wrong with you. You must realize that the .45 acp was designed to be a one shot manstopper (not saying that it is) that could be fired in a pistol, it's a big peice of lead. Can I shoot my .45 as good as my 9mm? No... but I can still shoot it good enough to comfortably use for self defense. If you don't feel comfortable with the .45 then give it up, there is absolutely no shame in that.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
lol darebear....i feel a follow up coming to that statement =P. "give it to me" lol. i like the 45 a lot. that's going to be my nightstand gun while the p2000 will be my carry piece.

thanks again for the info though!
 

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lol darebear....i feel a follow up coming to that statement =P. "give it to me" lol. i like the 45 a lot. that's going to be my nightstand gun while the p2000 will be my carry piece.

thanks again for the info though!
Oh no. Lol. I have two already. I'm constantely thinking about selling one to start another project. I def don't need a 3rd.
 

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Oh no. Lol. I have two already. I'm constantely thinking about selling one to start another project. I def don't need a 3rd.
Quit selling your guns! You know you regret it! HAHA.

OP: Always TRB. There are too many other issues it could be besides a light primer strike. Maybe the mag isn't fully seated and there is actually no round in the chamber at all. Regardless of light primer strike or no round in the chamber TRB will get a good round in the chamber immediately.
 

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Just pull the trigger again. No racking.
Congrats and welcome to the forum!

Mhmm. However, you should still be aware and know T.R.B. Train. Not all pistols have the double strike capabilities.
 

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TRB, or whatever you call your immediate action.

Afterwards, if you're interested in finding out if it's a light strike or dead primer, you can pick it up and try shooting again.
Here it is^^^^. So many reasons can be the cause for a fail to fire; light strike is just one of them. If you pull the trigger and light hit wasn't the issue; you've wasted another couple second the threat was still comming at you. If you guesed light hit and were wrong-your likely done. Tap it to ensure the magazine was seated, rack-it to load a fress round because the one before either wasn't there or is a dud; and fire off your fresh bullet. The whole "second strike" became popular when CZ's started becomming popular and I think the reason was to distract your anger for buying a CZ in the first place :).
 

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If you expect to survive a gunfight your range techniques should be the same as your gunfighting techniques. You perform to your level of training.

As others have said we don't care why the pistol didn't fire we need it back in operation immediately. Tap, Rack, Bang best summarizes it. Reason? What made you think there was a bad cartridge in the chamber -- or even ANY cartridge! Again, we don't care. Tap Rack Bang solves all problems and gets one in the chamber. Several trigger pulls will not.

It's been my experience that a failure to fire caused by a bad cartridge occurs with the same frequency as getting struck by lightning on a clear day. I've seen guys in training courses start an exercise with no magazine in the pistol (now me, of course :wink:) and they get one shot and then a click. Pulling the trigger again (and again) just wastes time. Again, we don't care why or assume a hard primer, we want a good cartridge in there. A non-properly seated magazine is another common cause. One round, then nothing feeds. A second trigger pull doesn't fix this. You get the idea.

Because the likelihood of a bad cartridge is so small you need to get a handful of dummy cartridges so you can practice this failure drill. Pulling the trigger several times with one of these in the chamber doesn't go Bang either. And when you see your buddy step up the firing line with a loose or no magazine don't say anything. A stoppage is a training opportunity. See how he reacts. If he pulls the trigger several times he needs to attend a good course.

-- Chuck
 

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TRB, who the hell worries or even thinks about a second strike? Immediate action should be automatic without second thought. If you are training to pull the trigger a second time then a class by a reputable instructor is needed. Not your local "NRA Certified" pistol instructor but a real instructor.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
apparently i shoot better with the HK45 because of the DA/SA. still need to get used to LEM a bit though. but i think i would prefer the LEM more.
 
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