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When shooting an HK with LEM trigger rapid fire, how common is it to trap the trigger (the failure to allow the trigger to return to the reset point before trying to shoot he pistol again resulting in no shot)? I have never done this with my LEM P2000SK but suspect it might be a problem under the stress of competition or a gunfight.

Anyone trap the trigger on their LEM pistol?
 

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When shooting an HK with LEM trigger rapid fire, how common is it to trap the trigger (the failure to allow the trigger to return to the reset point before trying to shoot he pistol again resulting in no shot)? I have never done this with my LEM P2000SK but suspect it might be a problem under the stress of competition or a gunfight.

Anyone trap the trigger on their LEM pistol?
I have done it a few times, but that was when I first started with the LEM. I have 3 carry guns presently, and all are LEM. I have always said that for me at least it needs to be LEM or nothing, when you start to mix your guns between LEM and anything else thats when people start running into issues.
 

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SA/DA Fan

....but suspect it might be a problem under the stress of competition or a gunfight.
This is the reason LEM has developed such a love/hate relationship with shooters. The trigger was and is a solution looking for a problem. As for what the duetschesblunder police wanted, who cares. I would bet you will find very few, if any, shooters proficient with an SA/DA pistol who have anything good to say about LEM/DAK/LDA triggers. They are counter-intuitive to good trigger control, period. I want at all times to have complete control of my sidearm including absolute control of my hammer so I chose to love to hate LEM.
 

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This is the reason LEM has developed such a love/hate relationship with shooters. The trigger was and is a solution looking for a problem. As for what the duetschesblunder police wanted, who cares. I would bet you will find very few, if any, shooters proficient with an SA/DA pistol who have anything good to say about LEM/DAK/LDA triggers. They are counter-intuitive to good trigger control, period. I want at all times to have complete control of my sidearm including absolute control of my hammer so I chose to love to hate LEM.
My friend has a much different take then you on the subject. He really likes the LEM trigger in his USP Compact. Many years ago, I found a DAO trigger to be preferable to a DA/SA transition. Of course a Single Action only pistol was what I really liked most at the time.
 

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When shooting an HK with LEM trigger rapid fire, how common is it to trap the trigger (the failure to allow the trigger to return to the reset point before trying to shoot he pistol again resulting in no shot)? I have never done this with my LEM P2000SK but suspect it might be a problem under the stress of competition or a gunfight.

Anyone trap the trigger on their LEM pistol?
I've done it a time or two in training when I hurried too much with my Glock. After realizing "smooth was fast" and "fast was slow", I quit doing that. Training is your friend here. Also, a stronger return spring might help.
 

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I've done it a time or two in training when I hurried too much with my Glock. After realizing "smooth was fast" and "fast was slow", I quit doing that. Training is your friend here. Also, a stronger return spring might help.
Train, train and train some more. Swapping parts won't fix the disconnect between your brain and second distal phalanx...

Somehow I knew Glock would get dragged into this thread.
 

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"I would bet you will find very few, if any, shooters proficient with an SA/DA pistol who have anything good to say about LEM/DAK/LDA triggers."

That's a pretty broad statement there. I'm pretty dang proficient with my DA/SA USP, but the main reason I'm converting all to LEM is because with proper trigger control, I have found almost no difference in shootability. In fact, I think LEM is more shootable if you factor in the DA stroke of the DA/SA (as it's horrendous).

However, I must say that my main motivation to changing over to LEM is the fact that fine motor skills go to pot in high stress situations. I personally do not trust myself to flip off the safety. Note...I think that anybody who's carrying DA/SA without the safety COULD (key word) get burned by accidentally engaging said safety. LEM "dumbifies" the solution a bit. As for short stroking the trigger, I found it more of a problem going back to to DA/SA USP. I never short stroked it, but did after extensive LEM practice.
Also, I think it's somewhat important to not forget the HK's (and most competitors) are combat weapons, not target punchers. If one wants a target puncher, go get a nice High Standard or top of the line Walther.

That said, whatever works for you is what's best for you; for me, LEM makes it KISS which is what I think I'd need if caught totally off guard. If I was in combat, where I KNEW I may have to use firearm, I'd say cocked & locked. However, in a civilian role, where I'm more likely to get mugged out of the blue, I say LEM/DAK/LDA/Glock/Walther QA or AS is where it is. Again, that's just my 0.02.
 

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I can only speak for myself. After converting from a DA revolver which I had been carrying and shooting for 20 years, I went to the USPC .45 V1. I fell in love with it and swore by it for 5 years. Then I gave the LEM V1 a fair chance and have been completely won over by it. Short stroking the trigger has never happened that I recall on either the V1 or the LEM V1. As said, if short stroking the trigger IS a problem, then IMO it has more to do with the shooter than the pistol.
 

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Anyone trap the trigger on their LEM pistol?
In some 25K rounds with LEM triggers it happened to me some 2 or 3 times (on IPSC or IDPA competitions). But it also happend to me twice on my ultra short reset STI 2011 that I use for IPSC now (in some 4K rounds), so not big deal with LEM I think. Even less probably with LEM as you don't expect ultra short reset and also reset point is distinctive with felt "click". My "trap" issues come when I was still on learning curve, I can't remeber this happen in lately. Even when I switch between my SA STI and LEM HKs all the time.
 

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... I would bet you will find very few, if any, shooters proficient with an SA/DA pistol who have anything good to say about LEM/DAK/LDA triggers...
It maybe a broad statement, but I find myself agreeing with him. It's not that LEM is bad, it is just very different from DA/SA. I cannot shoot the LEM well without thinking about how I am controling the trigger, something that with DA/SA has become second nature to me and requires no thought at all.

As JLStorm mentioned, it is best to shoot LEM exclusively or not at all. Bouncing back and fourth between DA/SA and LEM is very confusing and most likely will affect your accuracey greatly with the LEM.
 

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Train, train and train some more. Swapping parts won't fix the disconnect between your brain and second distal phalanx...

Somehow I knew Glock would get dragged into this thread.
Re Glock: Dance with the one that brought you .... :D

Maybe I'm mistaken but, I have read several threads that indicated the HK LEM could have a weak return spring which would increase the frequency of this problem. On my Glock, it's clearly user error that will go away with more training. When the factory LEM's come out, I will looking for either a P30 or HK45 but, until then I will continue shooting my Glock because it is what I have and it works for me.
 

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BigBore, when did you become a convert? Just curious. I'm guessing within the last 2 months ? :)

As for my short stroking the USP..well, I'll give it up to user error. I was REALLY trying for VERY short splits. Shame on me. I just wish I could practice around here in NW Florida...NO ranges allowing double taps...yet. One is "supposed" to open, but we'll see when. I reckon I could go to a clay pit.
 

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It maybe a broad statement, but I find myself agreeing with him. It's not that LEM is bad, it is just very different from DA/SA.
I agree also, although I shoot the LEM as well and I shoot it as quickly as DA/SA in a string of shots (w 4.5lb LEM only). The 6-7 lb LEM, I don't do as well.

I liked Sig's DA/SA until I shot the P30. My P30 has a great DA/SA trigger and has redefined everything for me.
 

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The inability for people to adapt to different triggers is due to the stubborness of the person in learning how to adapt to new things. Professional shooters like Todd Jarrett and Rob Leatham can pick up ANY gun and outshoot pretty much everyone because they have adapted their technique to be able to shoot anything with a trigger. They have gone to controlled slapping of the trigger instead of riding the trigger. With each shot, their finger comes completely off the trigger before pulling the trigger again. Slapping the trigger basically makes trigger pre-travel, creep, overtravel, and reset a non-issue.
 

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Good one Scooter; and very true!!!!

I know I borrowed an instructors Glock one time (G17) and it was pretty dang good; no "learning" curve so to speak. It really just depends on if you know about trigger control and aren't slapping that thing uncontrollably and jerking it around at the same time (smooth slapping ?). Also, learning trigger reset really helps IMO but that's not the magic pill in and of itself. In this department, it's hard to beat Glock...you DEFINITELY know when reset happens whether you want to know or not. :). DA Revolvers are a little different (for me) as I've been taught that the "pad" technique used on pistols isn't as effective as that first joint approach since a DA revolver is usually quite heavy in pull. I tried it..and low and behold shot lights out with the revolver with fairly fast splits using this technique. Each to his own though. Personally, I recommend everybody go to at least one training class, whether they think they need it or not - it can be eye opening (and kinda depressing too).

I like 'em both (DA/SA,LEM) on my HK's...but I favor the LEM for reasons I've stated before - I'm a self proclaimed idiot and I'd sure as heck forget the safety in a time of sheer terror and panic.
 

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I liked Sig's DA/SA until I shot the P30. My P30 has a great DA/SA trigger and has redefined everything for me.
Everything about the P30 is nice. The grips will make everything else seem like a brick in your hand and the SA trigger is the nicest I have ever had the pleasure of shooting, way better then my USPs. All in all I believe it is one of the best 9mm pistols out there next to the P7M8. :D
 

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I have had one competition related short stroke with the LEM. I usually shoot with a Glock 34 in IDPA and this was the first time using the P2000 in regular competition. My Glock has an extremely short reset and muscle memory got in the away.

Sorry about the Tupperware reference....... But there is more than one brand on the planet!
 

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My p2000v3 has a long seer(sp?). LEM trigger I assume shortens that considerably. I shot a friends retired "S&W boat anchor" and the seer was so short that I fired just with a twitch of the finger from the recoil of the 45 and it scared the heck out of me. Speed is and issue in competition but so is safety!
p2000lefty
 

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Ahhh, that reminds me of when I shot an instructors G17...shot amazingly well with it; and, to be honest, maybe better than my HK, but after all it does have a LONG sight radius. However, I'll cut my rambling short. This was about the time I was looking at a smaller auto for CC, so I tried our instructors 40cal, G27. Not only could I not hit the broad side of a barn, during a shoothouse exercise, I had what I'll deem as an "unintended" discharge after shooting a double tap. Obviously it's my fault, no harm done (I think I actually hit the target), but it scared the poop out of me. Of course, I'd never shot the thing, and didn't know about THAT guns trigger. I certainly figured it'd be much the same trigger as the G17...but it was a wee different than the G17 :). So super light and super short reset CAN be a problem. I wasn't used to such a small grip and such a large caliber. Several good lessons learned there. No...not buying a Glock wasn't one of them...yet.

Of course, when I decided on the SK, I matched up a G26 with a 40cal SK - that SK was so much lighter on recoil than that G27 it was amazing. That was enough, combined with the G27 experience, to make it an EASY decision...9mm SK LEM. :) :)
 
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