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Discussion Starter #1
So yesterday I went out to the LGS to fondle a Mark 23, and my plan was to buy it as long as I didn't find the grip prohibitively uncomfortable (like I thought about the USP the first time I held one). And it wasn't, the first time I held it. A little blocky, but not completely horrid. But a couple different things made me pause and think pretty hard about purchasing (I'll circle back to that). While my fun brain and frugal brain were fighting, I had the guy put a couple of their other HK .45s in my hand. First was the HK45, and suddenly the Mark 23 wasn't so comfortable after all. I have actually put about 30 rounds through a rental, and to be honest nothing jumped out or made me go "WOW this is a sweet shooter!" Not that I've shot all that many .45s to compare it to. Probably a grand total of 150 rounds through various rentals. The other one I held was a USP 45 Tactical. The wow factor on this one was the match trigger - although in my opinion this kindof makes it more of a dedicated range gun rather than carry/defensive. Not that it couldn't be, but I'd have a bit of a hangup carrying/nightstanding a gun with a trigger that short for a while I think. Grip was just a hair better than the Mark 23, which I didn't expect based on pretty much despising the USP grip when I held it previously. That one was a 9mm though. I held the Mark 23 again last, and comparatively it was the least comfortable grip of the 3.

A few different things originally made me pause on buying the Mark 23 on the spot. First and unrelated to the gun was the salesman was kindof an idiot, and the owner sitting right next to us wasn't interested enough to try to correct course. More to a relevant point, it appeared to be used. I suppose they didn't claim it was new, but they certainly didn't advertise it as used either and it was definitely new price. The top of the barrel hood was worn enough to be showing bare metal. The thread protector was missing, and the guy couldn't say for sure if it was in the box. All the other threaded barrels in the showcase had their protectors on though. If I had been thinking, I would have gotten the date code for someone here to decipher for me. I also learned some things about the Mark 23 I didn't already know. I was floored by how light it was, to the point where I caught myself falling into that "light = cheap" mental trap. Also discovered the safety only engages when cocked. Not a fan of that. I had read before that it had a chrome lined barrel, but didn't remember that until I saw it. And of course probably the biggest stop to buying it was the price. Deciding at home to spend $1800 is one thing, actually throwing down the cash is quite another. At least for me, I have a pretty strong mental hangup about spending large sums of money. Remember that when (if) you read the end of this post. It'll be funny.

So a summary of the dilemma:

HK45
pros
- Unquestionably the best grip.
- Even with the standard luminescents, my preferred sights of the 3.
- The only one I've actually shot, so I know at the very least I'm not going to hate it, even if I don't quite LOVE it.
- Best price of the three, though still expensive
- Picatinny rail, though I think I've seen people say here that many lights don't fit it anyway because there aren't enough slots?
- I have a feeling I'm going to want an HK45c in the future, and don't think I want both.
cons
- 10 rounds. Really my biggest grip with HK in general is they always seem to have lower capacity than pretty much everyone else's of the same size.
- Trigger. I actually think it's a pretty good pull, but worst of the 3. Don't like the wide, sharp shape of the trigger as compared to my p30sk (this is the same for all 3 though).
- No threaded barrel

USP 45T
pros
- Unquestionably the best trigger, at least for range. That almost-zero-movement break and stupid short reset was fun just to dry fire.
- Other ergonomics in general. For example larger mag release.
- Threaded barrel
- 12 rounds
cons
- Sights. Like that they are suppressor height, do not like at all that they are blacked out. I really like 3-dot.
- grip. Not even comparable to HK45.
- Non-standard rail
middle ground
- Price. Higher than I'd typically be willing to pay for something I don't HAVE to have, but still miles below the Mark 23.

Mark 23
pros
- 12 rounds (though I would have thought they could squeeze a little more into something this ******* big)
- Chrome lined, threaded barrel
- It's a ******* Mark 23
cons
- Price. Approaching double the cost of the other two.
- Safety, don't like the fact you can only engage it when cocked. The only reason I can see for that even existing is if it's WAY easier to design/build.
- Rail. Not only non-standard, but it doesn't enclose at the front. How does it prevent stuff from potentially sliding off? Just crank down hard on the clamp to friction lock?
- Grip. Worst of the 3, but acceptable.
middle ground
- Trigger, obviously no match, but still quite nice with a relatively light DA pull.
- Sights. Adjustable, but not suppressor height. 3-dot, but not luminescent or tritium.

All that being said, as much as I saw reasons to want the other two while in-store, since I left my mind keeps drifting back to the Mark 23. It's clearly the one I'm really lusting for. So probably what I need more than each gun having 20 different supporters is some yes-men to validate my Mark 23 splurge and some good old HK addiction enabling from the forum.:biggrin: But it's not going to be from that LGS anymore, ordering online it is. Or I guess if someone shows me a REALLY convincing argument for one of the others I hadn't thought of yet.

So if you're still reading, thanks for sticking with me. I do tend to ramble on message boards. It means a lot to me if you'd read that giant wall of text up there to try to help. Or if you just find it interesting I guess. Now that this is taken care of, if you'd follow me over to the NFA section as I managed to talk myself into buy a full auto MP5..... remember how I said I couldn't spend money earlier? (Serious about the buying one, but the thread won't appear for a while as I've burned myself out writing this monstrosity.)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Oh jesus it's like 5x bigger than I thought. I'm truly sorry.

tl;dr:
I'm stupidly indecisive even though I've really already decided. I'm getting a Mark 23, but I wants them ALL!
 

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Well, I have a Mark23 and love it, just because I feel like it's practically an indestructible gun. It's my house gun, sometimes competition gun, and probably the gun I would take if I had to go fight an invasion of zombies or whatever. It is definitely not the most comfortable gun to hold and dry fire, but I don't notice it at all when I shoot.

I have a USP full size, compact, and Expert and am awaiting an Elite, all in 9mm. I hated the USP grip when I got it, only got it because I was becoming an HK fanboy. It is the gun I shoot the best and I love it when I shoot it and again, don't even notice the grip.

I have 2 HK45's. I shot the best 5 shot group of my life with this gun. My problem is when I shoot it fast I hit the mag release with my trigger finger. I've only shot it once and haven't practiced with it since, but will soon. And that's an issue with my grip and trigger control, not the gun. With some work this may become my favorite gun.

All that said, what I would probably do is get the USP 45T. I have come to believe that the USP is about as fine a firearm as there is. It's not particularly pretty, or comfortable in the hand, but I find them to be incredibly easy to shoot and dead nuts accurate.

Actually, I would buy all 3:)

I would absolutely make 100% sure that if I was buying a new gun that it was without question new! If you think it might not be don't buy it. Good luck let us know what you end up with!
 

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You only think the Mark23 is light because you've been holding that steel monster for weeks now.

Personally, I wouldn't pay new for a pistol I knew was used when I could get a new one. Doesn't make much sense to me, especially if the shop is full of tards. Nope.

I'd still like to get a 23, but the last time I thought about it I bought another HK45 instead. I just can't imagine another 45 caliber pistol being better. But...maybe it is. Anyway, the rail on the HK45 is plenty long for most any light you'd want to put on there -- it's the HK45c that has the short rail that can't accommodate a lot of lights.

Good luck. Get all three.
 

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Years ago I had a Mk23, there is some emotional appeal about them, no doubt; I sold it thinking I would get a USP tactical .45

Well I got the USP-T a few weeks ago; I am happy with it. But I still sorta want a MK23; just because....

I think if I had to pick one; it would be the USP-tactical

Not to big, not to small
I would like the try a hk45; it seems the trend for other manufactures is to go away from finger grooves, like the USP
 

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I'm not sure what to say . This is more difficult than going to a grocery store that offers Paper OR Plastic ?.....DECISIONS ....DECISIONS !! I'll think I'll just go buy some rope and ................







Just buy one and post a pic. please ........:biggrin:
 

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I say get a MARK 23 (but then it's not my money:biggrin:). Try to find a used like new one that comes with the camo case and has the maritime finish. BTW on the MARK 23 a thread protector does not come standard. Oh, and once you get your MARK 23, start saving your pennies to by a suppressor (if they are allowed where you are).
 

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- Safety, don't like the fact you can only engage it when cocked. The only reason I can see for that even existing is if it's WAY easier to design/build.
- Rail. Not only non-standard, but it doesn't enclose at the front. How does it prevent stuff from potentially sliding off? Just crank down hard on the clamp to friction lock?
- Sights. Adjustable, but not suppressor height. 3-dot, but not luminescent or tritium.
Most guns I've owned will only let you put it on safe when cocked (whether it be a shotgun, AR, or handgun). I'm not a gunsmith or mechanical engineer, but I believe it's much easier mechanically to do it that way.

As for the rail, accessories are prevented from sliding forward by attachment to the trigger guard. If you look on the front of the trigger guard, you'll see a threaded hole. This is where the LAM (or rail adapter) secures.

The sights don't need to be "suppressor height." On the Mark 23, the base in which the sights install are raised above the slide's top plane, as opposed to being dovetail cuts below the slide's surface. Thus, even though the sights themselves are not tall, they are installed higher on the slide than most other sights. The Mark 23 was designed with suppressor use in mind, and it's the small details like this that makes it evident.

The Mark 23 is still my favorite. It's not the most practical, but I think it's the most fun.

As for a couple of your other points...

1. If you want a threaded barrel HK45, get the HK45 Tactical.
2. I found it odd that you said the USP45T had a "larger mag release." The USP45T has the smallest magazine release of all 3 guns, and people often put the HK45C magazine release into the USP for an "extended mag release"
3. If you don't like the blacked out sights on the USP45T, go for the USP45T LE package. It comes with an extra mag, along with Meprolight 3 dot tritium night sights.
 

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i have a 45 and its a great gun, but large for everyday carry. After i realized its a bit hefty, i bought a 45C. Felling love with it. Now I have 2 of them, a green and a sand one (factory frame and slide), both with standard LEM trigers, and Trijicon HD yellow sights. That are by far my most favorite all around guns.

I carry mine in Raven holsters, and they are surprisingly comfortable. Spare 10 round "elephant foot" mag in a horizontal Wilderness holster.
 

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Get all three.
At least decide on 2... :) That's my thinking now.
Bought a standard USP45 and adding match trigger to it. Looking for the best deal on an HK45c now. Splits the difference towards the classic grip/look/round count quite well. And because if I got the MK23, that'd be it on my cash.
 

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I'd say shoot all 3 the same day to see which you shoot the best.. Then post a WTB on here and check the Marketplace Pistols for sale daily.. Hold out for a really good price. The good thing about buying these, especially if you buy it here for a good price, is you can usually get most - if not all of your money back when you decide it's time to replace it with another.

Sent from my SM-G920R4 using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19
If you own a Mark 23, you absolutely must own a .45 suppressor ASAP. It's in the rule book.
Yep. I wasn't really planning on dealing with the NFA for several years, but about to have to cross that bridge anyway. Unfortunately I decided this shortly AFTER the KAC group buy closed.
 

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Mindset. Mindset. Mindset. Once your mind is set you won't mind. If we found ourselves in a Top Secret cavern after the zombie apocalypse and all we had was a Mark 23 and two rooms full of 45acp
I think we might become very proficient with that pistol. Shooting the eyeball out of a running squirrel at 20 yards would become ho-hum. I'm not one who has dedicated myself to becoming a pistolero however with enough time and practice it is achievable. Get the 23 and dedicate yourself towards mastery and you won't be dissatisfied. If on the other hand we act out on the hunter gatherer mentality, or choose to be collectors then that is what we get. It really is the mindset, I haven't run in to an HK product I didn't like, have you?

BTW, you may have talked me in to a 23. LOL
 
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