I was taught in the Academy that in an emergency situation, do what you gotta do, but repeatedly dropping one in the chamber is not good for the pistol, regardless of manufacturer. It's bad for the extractor.
Loading through the chamber (+1 Thread)
I started a new thread so not to derail the other.
I seem to be in a small group that think loading through the chamber is perfectly acceptable. Sarge says that it will break extractors. Since Sarge and most of you have been in the H&K world longer than I, what say you? Is this a problem with H&K's that I am not aware of? I've done this with M&P's, SR9's, Berretta's and even cheap Kel-Tec without an issue.
Thanks
I seem to be in a small group that think loading through the chamber is perfectly acceptable. Sarge says that it will break extractors. Since Sarge and most of you have been in the H&K world longer than I, what say you? Is this a problem with H&K's that I am not aware of? I've done this with M&P's, SR9's, Berretta's and even cheap Kel-Tec without an issue.
Thanks
So there's more harm being done to an extractor by hot loading that by the force of small explosion and slamming forward? I think that's all hogwash for any quality handgun with a nice angle to the extractor. I think there is more damage being done to the round if you're reloading the same round over and over again.I always carry with one in the chamber and top off the magazine. Also I always load from the magazine. While repeated chamberings can cause bullet setback a broken extractor is not your friend either. Bill
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I can't answer your first question, but as to your second point: you shouldn't be reloading the same round over and over again, because you should be cycling the ammo in your carry mags anyway, to prevent feeding issues due to round "creasing".I started a new thread so not to derail the other.
So there's more harm being done to an extractor by hot loading that by the force of small explosion and slamming forward? I think that's all hogwash for any quality handgun with a nice angle to the extractor. I think there is more damage being done to the round if you're reloading the same round over and over again.
From a recent post on SigForum:
Keeping Mags loaded - TopicCarlton Nether, Customer Service for Beretta USA, tells us keeping a pistol magazine loaded for an extended period doesn't cause magazine spring failure, however, failures to feed can result. He says, "The ammo will 'roll' in the magazine. If the mags are kept loaded and moved around a lot -- say on a cop's belt -- the rolling action can, over time, cause creases in the cases. These creases can cause malfunctions. Also the top bullet will roll against the magazine lips and creasing can occur there as well. Just check old ammo that's been bouncing around in a magazine for a long time.
Right, I don't reload the same round over and over again but for many people, they either don't understand the dangers or they just don't shoot and learn enough not to. Some owners just buy 50 rounds of whatever, load and forget about it. Sadly, I've even seen police officers who do this and they are supposed to be professionals.I can't answer your first question, but as to your second point: you shouldn't be reloading the same round over and over again, because you should be cycling the ammo in your carry mags anyway, to prevent feeding issues due to round "creasing".
From a recent post on SigForum:
Keeping Mags loaded - Topic
Have you ever broke an extractor on your HK's or service firearm?I was taught in the Academy that in an emergency situation, do what you gotta do, but repeatedly dropping one in the chamber is not good for the pistol, regardless of manufacturer. It's bad for the extractor.
I was taught that it would damage the extractor and not only that since the bullet is already seated within the chamber it's as if your dropping the slide on a empty chamber which over time will cause damage. When the slide is released forward the act of it pushing a new round from the top of the mag to the chamber acts as a buffer between the slide and chamber... hence bullet setback. All that slide mass is hitting something, whether it be the empty chamber or bullet and it is going to cause adverse effects to whatever it's hitting...
But what do I know? I just try to listen and learn. A guy that almost made Topshot told me this so I figured he knew what he was talking about... but I also had a avid gun collector tell me that WD40 was a good cleaning product and in the same day a gunsmith told me otherwise. So like I said... What do I know?
But what do I know? I just try to listen and learn. A guy that almost made Topshot told me this so I figured he knew what he was talking about... but I also had a avid gun collector tell me that WD40 was a good cleaning product and in the same day a gunsmith told me otherwise. So like I said... What do I know?
You got it brother! Not all cops are gun literate.Right, I don't reload the same round over and over again but for many people, they either don't understand the dangers or they just don't shoot and learn enough not to. Some owners just buy 50 rounds of whatever, load and forget about it. Sadly, I've even seen police officers who do this and they are supposed to be professionals.
Have you ever broke an extractor on your HK's or service firearm?
I'm 25 and a few of the guys I graduated with (one used to sell his Ritlain to other classmates WOWSERS!) are not gun guys at all. I say my gun knowledge is mininum at best and they still come to me asking me for advice. I actually had one of them call me for help because he put on his Glock slide without the barrell... YIKES!... Great "save the world" kinda guys but don't give a sh** about guns... They'd rather post every crime they encounter on Facebook, come around in their cruiser to show off, and watch STOPKONY videos rather than learn about the tools of the trade... It's a damn shame.
As the top round is stripped from the mag, the rim of the case slides up from the bottom behind the extracter. If you drop the slide on a hand fed round, it makes the extracter jump over the rim of the case and works.it harder than it should. Puts stress on the extracter that way. I chamber the first round and top off the mag.
Sorry about my previous post/rant. There are alot more good cops than bad/incompetent cops... I know, some were in my family. Hats off to the LEO's.
That's not something I ever considered.As the top round is stripped from the mag, the rim of the case slides up from the bottom behind the extracter. If you drop the slide on a hand fed round, it makes the extracter jump over the rim of the case and works.it harder than it should. Puts stress on the extracter that way. I chamber the first round and top off the mag.
For the sake of learning by seeing, load a mag and ride the slide forward and watch, its easy to see and get the idea of what I'm saying. Also, if the extracter has to jump the rim, its putting more force on the bullet nose if its against something than if the slide were farther forward and nothing against the nose of the round.
+1 ^As the top round is stripped from the mag, the rim of the case slides up from the bottom behind the extracter. If you drop the slide on a hand fed round, it makes the extracter jump over the rim of the case and works.it harder than it should. Puts stress on the extracter that way. I chamber the first round and top off the mag.
IIRC the manual talks about administrative loading for proper +1
^^^This is the exact reason why it's not advised. Will the extractor lip peen over or break the first time you do it? Nope. Is it harder on the extractor and spring over time if you do it this way? Yep. I used to be of the same "What's the difference?" mind until this was pointed out to me. Once you think about the mechanics it's juts common sense that it puts more stress on the extractor. I have a feeling that more extractor issues are caused by this than people realize.As the top round is stripped from the mag, the rim of the case slides up from the bottom behind the extracter. If you drop the slide on a hand fed round, it makes the extracter jump over the rim of the case and works.it harder than it should. Puts stress on the extracter that way. I chamber the first round and top off the mag.
Always from the mag. A new cartridge is cheaper than any eventual damage to the extractor if you're worried about bullet setback.
And has been stated, loading through the chamber exerts completely different force on the extractor than does loading from a mag, or any force that occurs during the firing/extraction cycle.
And has been stated, loading through the chamber exerts completely different force on the extractor than does loading from a mag, or any force that occurs during the firing/extraction cycle.
This issue of dropping the slide on a chambered rd has been here before, about a year ago. Big Bore responded to some of my comments when I said I had been doing it on dummy rds for dry fire. The reason not to is pretty obvious, once one notices: look at the lip on the cartidge, especially an aluminum one like a dummy; it's pinged from the impact of the extractor.
The manner by which the slide slips the cartridge lip up to behind the extractor hook is quite elegant, and it is obvious why that route is better than hot loading. Now I load a dummy only from a mag.
Anyway, there is no normal reason in preparing to carry not to chamber the +1 load from a mag and then finish off the mag. Sometimes, though, one needs to set the mag more forcefully when a rd is already chambered, but that isn't much of an issue.
If someone uses the same cartridge over and over again, there are threads on the issues associated w/ that, too. Over many chamberings, the slug may be set further back into the brass than is design spec. So, anyone doing that may be advised to change a behavior.
The manner by which the slide slips the cartridge lip up to behind the extractor hook is quite elegant, and it is obvious why that route is better than hot loading. Now I load a dummy only from a mag.
Anyway, there is no normal reason in preparing to carry not to chamber the +1 load from a mag and then finish off the mag. Sometimes, though, one needs to set the mag more forcefully when a rd is already chambered, but that isn't much of an issue.
If someone uses the same cartridge over and over again, there are threads on the issues associated w/ that, too. Over many chamberings, the slug may be set further back into the brass than is design spec. So, anyone doing that may be advised to change a behavior.
Loading through the chamber is simply forcing the extractor to do something that it is not designed to do. To the best of my knowledge, there is only one pistol designed to be loaded this way and it is the Beretta M9. I do not believe this is a design feature of any of the HK models, but I do know that the P7 will operate with a damaged extractor.
The gun is not designed to drop your slide on an already chambered round. I have seen two different broken HK pistol extractors, both of which I believe were caused this way. Typically they don't bend, they chip or snap off. They are MIM (yes, I said Mietal Injection Molded), and they are rather brittle since they are designed to work on a pivot with a separate spring. . . unlike a 1911 where the extractor IS a type of spring.
Generally speaking, it is bad practice to drop most semi-auto pistol slides onto a chambered round.
Generally speaking, it is bad practice to drop most semi-auto pistol slides onto a chambered round.
The Walther P5, Sig P6, and H&K P7 were all designed to be loaded this way as well. I think it was one of the design specifications for them to be adopted as police pistols in Germany back in the late 70's.To the best of my knowledge, there is only one pistol designed to be loaded this way and it is the Beretta M9.
On the P7, the extractor always jumps over the rim of the casing, as it is not designed to slide behind the extractor.
I believe the Beretta M9 pistols (as well as the P5, P6, and P7) have this feature so that it can still function reliably as a single shot pistol if the magazine is either missing or damaged.
This seems to have been an important feature to some people and agencies 30+ years ago, though I don't know of any recently designed pistols that are designed to be loaded this way. I personally don't believe I would ever need to load rounds through the ejection port, though if I did, I would do it whether or not the pistol was designed to be loaded this way or not.
I don't see a reason to do this regularly on any pistol if there is a mag nearby, as like a few people already stated, most pistols are not designed to be loaded this way, and it can cause damage to the extractor on those pistols.
I dont load from the chamber unless its a 'last resort'. I chamber the round with an inserted full mag, then drop the mag, and top it off. Its easier on the extractor...The FS92 was designed to be chamber loaded, its obvious due to its unusual 'open slide' design.
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