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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm as noob as you can get. I have a question though. Is it possible to restore an M16 lower to match and look exactly like an HK416 lower? Obviously not identical but pretty close. Go easy on me please! Thanks guys.
 

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I'm not sure what kind of finish the HK416 has. I assume it's anodized. You could have the selector markings changed and have it re anodized to match the new upper. Amost all of the registered lowers have a lighter finish than the HK or new M16 uppers.

I did my lower in Norrell's flat black bake on finish. It looks pretty good and it's holding up nice. It's a pretty good match to the newer black uppers. I have thought about sending if off to be anodized but I'm not real excited about shipping it off. I really don't want it to be too pretty and perfect. I bought it to shoot.

Good luck with your project. Anything is doable if you want it bad enough.
 

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I've seen on this site exactly what you're talking about. It was an olympic m16 or something similar. HK markings had been added. Had to look real close to see difference. I looked in the HK416 and HK417 HQ - Club HKU (HK uppers on non-HK lowers photo gallery) section and couldn't find it. I think youre best bet would be to try to find someone selling a complete HK416 parts kit or a HK416 post sample and ask if thew would de-mil it and sell it. Then find cheapest M16 you can and send it all to a good M16 smith.
 

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Another option would be to get a RDIAS and either use a MR556 lower or have a AR lower customized with the HK style markings.
IMHO that is the only option. There was an article in the "Legal Side" section of Small Arms Review magazine last year. The article talked about an issue with remarking an NFA registered item. The serial # must remain on a Title I firearm. A Title II firearm must have the original serial #, manufacturer's information and model #. If an original HK 93 was converted to a push pin RR and remarked at the time of conversion, it is my understanding that the receiver could be marked HK 33. As long as that remark was done before or at the time of conversion. If later in the life of the 33 it was converted to 53 configuration, and remarked HK 53, there would be a problem. This leads to a "catch 22". Like the RR guns that where converted with an unregistered sear, the Tech Branch will not allow the RR to be put into the proper configuration/marking, but as is the configuration/markings are improper.

So if an Oly M16 RR was remarked HK 416, my understanding is the gun would be an improper configuration because the original markings on a NFA RR were altered. That could mean the altered RR could be subject to confiscation. So that $10,000 to $12,000 M16 RR plus the $4,000 to $5,000 416 parts set could find a new home at the NFA office. God only knows, if that happened, what it would cost in lawyer's fee to try and get it back. That is one of the many reasons that the list of transferable machineguns continues to shrink.

Now it is my understanding that if you remarked a MR556 to "416", as long as the receiver remained Title I, there wouldn't be an issue. Now if the MR556 was remarked "416" before it was registered as a SBR, again my understanding is that would be okay. But I'd think you'd want some kind of documentation that the remark was done before registration. If it could be proved that the remark was done after registration, then there could be a problem. YMMV.

Scott
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
IMHO that is the only option. There was an article in the "Legal Side" section of Small Arms Review magazine last year. The article talked about an issue with remarking an NFA registered item. The serial # must remain on a Title I firearm. A Title II firearm must have the original serial #, manufacturer's information and model #. If an original HK 93 was converted to a push pin RR and remarked at the time of conversion, it is my understanding that the receiver could be marked HK 33. As long as that remark was done before or at the time of conversion. If later in the life of the 33 it was converted to 53 configuration, and remarked HK 53, there would be a problem. This leads to a "catch 22". Like the RR guns that where converted with an unregistered sear, the Tech Branch will not allow the RR to be put into the proper configuration/marking, but as is the configuration/markings are improper.

So if an Oly M16 RR was remarked HK 416, my understanding is the gun would be an improper configuration because the original markings on a NFA RR were altered. That could mean the altered RR could be subject to confiscation. So that $10,000 to $12,000 M16 RR plus the $4,000 to $5,000 416 parts set could find a new home at the NFA office. God only knows, if that happened, what it would cost in lawyer's fee to try and get it back. That is one of the many reasons that the list of transferable machineguns continues to shrink.

Now it is my understanding that if you remarked a MR556 to "416", as long as the receiver remained Title I, there wouldn't be an issue. Now if the MR556 was remarked "416" before it was registered as a SBR, again my understanding is that would be okay. But I'd think you'd want some kind of documentation that the remark was done before registration. If it could be proved that the remark was done after registration, then there could be a problem. YMMV.

Scott
Thanks for this. This sounds very thorough which I like a lot. This is a dream of mine, I think the gun is a sexy gun.

It seems like after a ton of research I'd probably be better with the mr556 lower because of a slight chance of durability issues with an m16 lower. I haven't heard about any problems with an m16 lower but that there is a greater chance of running into a durability issue with an older m16 lower. Plus, I think it might be a little cheaper doing it this way too.

So if I'm not mistaken a solution might me to buy a 416 upper, 556 lower and a registered DIAS, correct? And with a registered DIAS is it possible to add a 2 or 3 round burst along with semi and auto?

Also, before I register the gun I'd change the name to HK416? Can I just take the gun type off completely and just leave the HK?

Also, would an HR416 parts kit be necessary for an mr556 lower? And thanks to everyone else who provided info.
 

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You should be able to remark the lower as long as it is in a title 1 configuration as per the article Scott referred to. For a RDIAS to function you will still need a M-16 hammer, trigger, disconnect and selector. I would strongly recommend either Colt or Geissele for the FCG and Colt does make a 4 position trigger group although the M-16 pattern burst group is vastly inferior to the 90 series HK packs.

The M-16 burst group doesn't reset like the HK and the trigger feels different depending on where the cam is in it's rotation cycle. That's why I have my Fleming sear in a burst pack, but a safe-semi-auto FCG in my RDIAS host.
 

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I didn't state original markings were changed in anyway. Only new markings added. Don't know if this is legal. I am sure it has been done. Also don't know if OP is in a position to add approximately $6,000-$8,000 to the cost of this venture by going with a DIAS and host gun.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
You should be able to remark the lower as long as it is in a title 1 configuration as per the article Scott referred to. For a RDIAS to function you will still need a M-16 hammer, trigger, disconnect and selector. I would strongly recommend either Colt or Geissele for the FCG and Colt does make a 4 position trigger group although the M-16 pattern burst group is vastly inferior to the 90 series HK packs.

The M-16 burst group doesn't reset like the HK and the trigger feels different depending on where the cam is in it's rotation cycle. That's why I have my Fleming sear in a burst pack, but a safe-semi-auto FCG in my RDIAS host.
Some of that went over my head, I have to admit.

Just to clarify, it's not possible to put a 90 series hk trigger pack in an mr556 with a DIAS right? The only way to do it is with an mr556 lower, DIAS, and the Colt M16 parts you mentioned? If that's the only way to add a three round burst and the burst pack isn't up to par, is it really worth adding? I'm kind of bummed to find that out.

I didn't state original markings were changed in anyway. Only new markings added. Don't know if this is legal. I am sure it has been done. Also don't know if OP is in a position to add approximately $6,000-$8,000 to the cost of this venture by going with a DIAS and host gun.
I'm not worried about cost. This is going to be a slow process. I want to do it right though.
 

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Sorry if there was any confusion generated by my post,but I was just trying to say that the M-16 burst group is rather unrefined when compared to a HK style burst group. The Colt 4 position FCG works well, but it doesn't reset and the trigger weight can change depending on where the burst cam is in its cycle. If you have the gun in 3rd burst and you let off the trigger after only two rounds the next trigger pull will only give you one round since the burst cam cycles each time the hammer goes forward regardless of the selector position.

I have had a DIAS since 2008 so feel free to let me kow if I can answer any questions.

Erick
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Sorry if there was any confusion generated by my post,but I was just trying to say that the M-16 burst group is rather unrefined when compared to a HK style burst group. The Colt 4 position FCG works well, but it doesn't reset and the trigger weight can change depending on where the burst cam is in its cycle. If you have the gun in 3rd burst and you let off the trigger after only two rounds the next trigger pull will only give you one round since the burst cam cycles each time the hammer goes forward regardless of the selector position.

I have had a DIAS since 2008 so feel free to let me kow if I can answer any questions.

Erick
Yeah, that wouldn't be acceptable. And that's the only or best option? That sounds ineffective and unreliable to me. Also, do you know of any good places to look at that sell DIAS on a regular basis?? Same with the burst packs? Thanks with the help and I'll def be taking you up on your offer. I can always ask more questions. I seem to never run out.
 

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That's the only option for a M-16, but really with a bit of practice a good trigger like a Geissele negates the usefulness of a burst mech. I have better control using the auto FCG on my M-16 than I do with the burst FCB on my work A2.

If you are interested in trying a burst group both specialized armament and brownells sell Colt FCG's.

Frank from ATF machineguns has a DIAS listed on subguns and sturmgewher and a WTB ad usually gets a few offers. A steel DIAS is the most desirable, but I wouldn't refuse an aluminum bodied sear if the price is right.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That's the only option for a M-16, but really with a bit of practice a good trigger like a Geissele negates the usefulness of a burst mech. I have better control using the auto FCG on my M-16 than I do with the burst FCB on my work A2.

If you are interested in trying a burst group both specialized armament and brownells sell Colt FCG's.

Frank from ATF machineguns has a DIAS listed on subguns and sturmgewher and a WTB ad usually gets a few offers. A steel DIAS is the most desirable, but I wouldn't refuse an aluminum bodied sear if the price is right.
After what you told me I'll stick with semi and auto. So an MR556 lower and an hk416 upper, Colt M16 trigger parts with a DIAS. Are they all around $20k?
 

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Lately most of the DIAS I have seen have been around 17-20K. However that doesn't mean the seller is getting the asking price and cash in hand is a good negotiating tool. 416 uppers seem to be around 3.5-4K and I'm not sure what MR lowers are runnng. The FCG will be the cheapest part of the equation at just a couple hundred bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Lately most of the DIAS I have seen have been around 17-20K. However that doesn't mean the seller is getting the asking price and cash in hand is a good negotiating tool. 416 uppers seem to be around 3.5-4K and I'm not sure what MR lowers are runnng. The FCG will be the cheapest part of the equation at just a couple hundred bucks.
And the FCG should be colt correct? Also, I should get a Geissele trigger?

I have one more question, this is where my lack of knowledge will shine. What will have to be done to te rifle for the extra option of auto besides those first steps.

I really can't thank you enough for your help!
 

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The Geissele trigger just gives a lighter and smoother pull than milspec parts. You would still need a M-16 selector with a Geissele SSF trigger group. I know the 416 upper will work and I think the MR556's bolt carrier will trip an auto sear.

The MR556 lower is low shelf so after you swap in a F/A FCG to function the DIAS you should be good to go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
So here it goes :


Parts List

Hk416 - Upper - 14.5 or 10.4
MR556 - Lower
Registered Drop In Auto Sear
Giessele SSF Trigger Group
M16 Selector

HK Vert Grip
Eotech XPS-3 w/ Night Vision (If the 10.4 is purchased)

I'm not sure what sight/scope yet if I buy the 14.5. For some reason I'm having trouble finding a suppressor for a 416 upper. That and a tac light. If you know of anything to recommend that would be greatly appreciated. You seem well informed which has been a life saver.

I'll be buying what is legal in NJ, but I'll be moving to Texas in a year or two to start a business. It's going to be a long process, like I said. That's where I'll have to buy the DIAS and Upper(since I can only legally buy a 16.5 here). I'm still looking into the legality of owning a Giessele SSF Trigger Group here. I'm not screwing around and I'm unwilling to take any chances.

Again, though, as I've already said before, thank you!
 

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I have a YHM supressor and a Aimpoint T1 with a magnifier on my M-16 and the red dot sights work well on auto. The Marines have Trijicon ACOGs with a RDS backup on their M27's so that could be a good option also.

Really you can't go wrong with any on the major manufacturers 5.56 cans. AAC, Gemtech, Silencerco, Surefire, Yankee Hill and OPS inc all make F/A rated cans and the sound reduction is similar. The biggest difference is the weight and mounting options.

I would definable recommend against having any F/A parts around unless you have a MG that they can be used in to avoid the possibility of "constructive intent". The needed parts are easily acquired when needed and the risk is not worth it IMO.
 
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