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Meh. I’m fine with 45 super out of a HK45 or USP for cats and black bears. 10mm isn’t enough in my book for brown bears anyway. 12ga slug ftw.
Better what you have with you than what you would LIKE to have with you. .45 Super or heavy 10mm is more likely to be in the first category.

As for the second:
.45-70 Govt or maybe .444 Marlin in a Marlin 1895, .45-70 Govt. in a modern Winchester 1886 for the long arms. .44 Mag with good grips for a handgun. Those being options I have and am comfortable with, in addition to the 12g with slugs.
 

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I can live with that.

I don't take your comments personally at all. And while I fully acknowledge that 10mm obviously isn't popular on the same scale as 9, 40 & 45, it is clearly popular enough that quite a few ammo manufacturers make multiple options in the caliber, and a number of major and minor gun manufacturers offer 10mm models as well. Based on that, it's clearly more than a "historic novelty." And clearly it must "sell" or all those companies wouldn't bother with it. On the contrary - it seems like we are seeing more and more 10mm options being released as it becomes more popular, largely for the same reasons I previously mentioned.

HK surely has their reasons for not wanting to dip a toe in that water, but it's not because it isn't a valid and viable caliber, that somehow other manufacturers have figured out how to sell successfully. However I can also understand that there are extenuating circumstances that may be heavily influencing HK to stay focused on that which is most profitable.
 

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Meh. I’m fine with 45 super out of a HK45 or USP for cats and black bears. 10mm isn’t enough in my book for brown bears anyway. 12ga slug ftw.
Agreed. Ultimately no handgun is a great option for grizz. On the other hand, I'd rather have 10 rounds of stout 10mm in that case than 6 rounds of something like 460 Rowland in a revolver hand cannon that weighs 4 lbs and takes 30 seconds after each shot to get back on target. I think a lot of people really fool themselves with carrying a massive wheelgun in the backcountry, if you pay attention to how bear attacks actually happen.

But backpacking with a shotgun isn't always feasible either. Something like the Underwood 10mm 200gr LFN, with a rated velocity of 1200 fps and almost 700 ft lbs of muzzle energy is a viable alternative if you can only carry a handgun, and is what most hunting guides in my region seem to opt for, in addition to carrying whatever long gun they carry for elk, etc.

Regardless, I think that if you have need for 10mm it makes a lot of sense and is a very versatile caliber, but if you don't, I'm sure it seems like a solution looking for a problem.
 
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I fully understand that a VP10 will never happen but if it did I'd be on it like a fat kid on cake! It would be the ultimate Montana woods gun!:cool:😍
 

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Wow - tell us how you really feel.

10mm has real viability as a powerful backcountry pistol caliber for protection against large animals, and also for hunting. It's a good alternative to heavy 357 magnum critter loads, for those of us that want to carry more than 6 rounds that a revolver offers in the backcountry. I live in a place where I have the possibility of encountering every large predator found in N. America, short of polar bears, literally at the end of my road, and I have encountered a number of them. That's why I prefer 10mm.
I call nonsense. If you need 10mm then what you really need is a rifle. If you can't carry a .308, then carry a pair of .44 mag revolvers.

But, as has been pointed out, the market demands for 10mm just isn't there. Maybe a semi 10mm really does fit that niche best, but expecting manufacturers to cater to 10 dudes in sticks is silly.

When I'm out in the woods, I sling an HK91, with 2 or 3 mags on me (cuz mags fail before the rifle). Mountain lions, and bears share my land. When I'm doing a bunch of manual labor and a long gun is especially a burden, I carry a pair of .44 wheelguns.

I've never thought "what I need is a 10mm auto"

Cuz thats nonsense. What I NEED is a 2lbs plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. But since they don't exist I carry a .308.

Amongst 2-legged critters, I'm happy with a 9mm.
 

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I call nonsense. If you need 10mm then what you really need is a rifle. If you can't carry a .308, then carry a pair of .44 mag revolvers.

But, as has been pointed out, the market demands for 10mm just isn't there. Maybe a semi 10mm really does fit that niche best, but expecting manufacturers to cater to 10 dudes in sticks is silly.

When I'm out in the woods, I sling an HK91, with 2 or 3 mags on me (cuz mags fail before the rifle). Mountain lions, and bears share my land. When I'm doing a bunch of manual labor and a long gun is especially a burden, I carry a pair of .44 wheelguns.

I've never thought "what I need is a 10mm auto"

Cuz thats nonsense. What I NEED is a 2lbs plasma rifle in the 40 watt range. But since they don't exist I carry a .308.

Amongst 2-legged critters, I'm happy with a 9mm.
You call "nonsense" simply because you've made different choices, and so that's what we should all choose as well?

My hunting rifle is a .308, but no, I don't walk up every trail around my house, year-round, with a scoped rifle slung over my shoulder. I also do multi-day backpacking trips where I'm already carrying a 40-50lb pack, and I don't want to add a 7lb rifle into the mix. There are also lots of times when I'm just going for a day hike and I like having a capable handgun with me, even if it's likely not a "grizzly stopper." But oh, right - your solution for that is a "pair of .44 revolvers." Explain to me why carrying 7 lbs worth of revolvers around is preferable, and that if one chooses a single pistol that weighs a fraction of that, but has comparable capacity and ballistics, that's "nonsense?"

Besides, 10mm isn't just about defense from critters - it's also one of the most popular loads for handgun hunting, and THE top load for people who want to handgun hunt with a pistol instead of a revolver.

That's great that you've made your own choices and they seem to work for you. But you might want to stop short of labeling any other approach or way of thinking as "nonsense." It only reflects on you.
 

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You call "nonsense" simply because you've made different choices, and so that's what we should all choose as well?
No - not at all - carry what you like, of course. Re-reading my post, I realize it wasn't written well. My point was simply that in the application you're talking about there are technically more effective options than 10mm, or ANY handgun round, as you also note.

So, if NO handgun rounds are particularly effective in this role, but we're forced to choose a handgun then right off the bat we're behind the 8-ball and the correct answer for any shooter is "The biggest SOB you can shoot well and quickly."

If, for you, thats 10mm -- so be it. And 10mm auto is better than .357 in general.

But I've never heard a guide recommend 10mm or .357 against bears, guides in your area apparently do -- so cool -- I just never heard of such a thing. Your point about .460 or .500 revolvers is well taken; but even hot .44 magnum is pretty controllable, and easy to get back on target, once you adjust to using a wheelgun which is much different from shooting a semi.
 

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....So, if NO handgun rounds are particularly effective in this role, but we're forced to choose a handgun then right off the bat we're behind the 8-ball and the correct answer for any shooter is "The biggest SOB you can shoot well and quickly."
I think that's really the key phrase - "quickly and accurately."

If you study most bear attacks (and wild animal attacks in general) they tend to happen very quickly and at very close range. The number of survivors who say something to the effect of, "I didn't even know the bear was there and then suddenly it was on top of me," are too numerous to count.

The bear that is a true threat and is really intent on coming for you, but that is far enough away that you have plenty of time to un-shoulder and aim your scoped rifle, or draw your massive, 4lb, 6" barreled hand cannon out of your holster, and then aim and shoot accurately on a moving target, is a statistical anomaly, though a common fantasy.

Personally, if I'm only going to have a handgun on me, then I prefer something that has enough power to propel a 200+ gr LFN at least 1200 fps, and the right 10mm loads can do that. But just as importantly - I want something that I can get fast and accurate follow-up shots with - and for me, I can do that more effectively with a 5" 10mm pistol than I can with a 44 mag. (I've owned numerous revolvers and am familiar with how to shoot them). Also on my list of important criteria is that I can carry almost twice the amount of ammo in my pistol than a revolver, because reloads in a bear attack - especially revolver reloads - are a pipe dream.

But I've never heard a guide recommend 10mm or .357 against bears, guides in your area apparently do -- so cool -- I just never heard of such a thing. Your point about .460 or .500 revolvers is well taken; but even hot .44 magnum is pretty controllable, and easy to get back on target, once you adjust to using a wheelgun which is much different from shooting a semi.
I live in the greater Yellowstone area, with the highest concentration of grizz outside of northern Canada/Alaska (plus plenty of large black bears, wolves, cats...). And the trend I've seen has been toward guides (and hunters in general) carrying Glock 20s, mainly for the reasons stated above. Still plenty of old guys carrying revolvers though as well. Both can work...and both can not work, too.
 

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to go from that to saying that the caliber in general is "nonsense" and a "historic novelty" that has no real usefulness, is quite the leap in logic which doesn't seem to have occurred to all the manufacturers above.
Agreed! Personally I like the 10mm, its a versatile round. I'm also a nerd about the ballistics and think accomplishing that kind of velocity and energy in a semi-auto cartridge is neat. To get it through a USP, though, I had to DIY.
 

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I just don't get this fascination with 10mm. That ship has long sailed off the edge of the flat Earth. Combine all 10mm fans, and you have maybe 5000 units to order. Not worth the R&D. If the 10mm was all it was supposed to be, the .40 S&W would have never been necessary. (n) Cool as an historic novelty, but a holdover of Dirty Harry fans who are into semi-autos.
Agreed. Won't do anything a good 9mm cartridge can't do, assuming we're talking self defense against 2-legged critters. Shot placement is still king.

That being said, B&T's APC10mm PCC has caught my attention, but only for the sole purpose of camping/hiking/fishing out west where my brother lives and one might encounter a small bear or cat. Even then, I'm not so sure 10mm is going to save my ass when Mother Bear comes charging. A good 9mm will probably be sufficient against a stalking cat...
 

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Caliber doesn’t matter if you don’t have the mindset to solve the problem in the first place. I know a few people who “carry” Glock 20’s when hiking... in a freaking backpack, where it’s about as useful as a third armpit. That mentality leads to nightmare scenarios like this one.


 

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Caliber doesn’t matter if you don’t have the mindset to solve the problem in the first place. I know a few people who “carry” Glock 20’s when hiking... in a freaking backpack, where it’s about as useful as a third armpit. That mentality leads to nightmare scenarios like this one.
100% agreed. I've never understood why people bother carrying at all if they aren't going to have it accessible. As I said above, they're clueless about how attacks actually happen.

....A good 9mm will probably be sufficient against a stalking cat...
I'd still much rather have a 10 than a 9. There is no comparison ballistically, and a big cat is a tough animal - a lot tougher than any 2-legged threat.
 

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I'd still much rather have a 10 than a 9. There is no comparison ballistically
9mm will probably be sufficient against a stalking cat...
Personally, I'd rather take the extra 300 ft./lbs to avoid relying on a "probably" to get me home safe, but that's just me. Fortunately, the chances of encountering a stalking cougar in FL aren't real high unless you're in South Beach
 

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Apparently no one here knows any one who act ally owns and uses a S&W 500?

I do. He carries one of those for his two months every year near Lake City, Co (above 9000 ft) and rarely leaves his place without it. Has some interesting tales to tell.

I've shot it. IT WILL do the job. And comped, the followup shot is not nearly as difficult as you would think. Besides, if you actually confront a bear of ANY size (including cub, MOMS not far off), your adrenilin will be off the charts, your pulse is pouding in your ears and you say a quick prayer "god help me" and boom. If you LIVE to pull the trigger a second time, your first round got it's attention. IF NOT, you are already dead. Simple as that.

Besides, if you fire this without hearing protection, your ears are 'offline' and if you are lucky you can still focus your vision. AND IF YOU ARE REALLY LUCKY, either MR BEAR IS DEAD AT YOUR FEET or nowhere to be seen.

Either means you survived. Perhaps your guardian angel heard your cry for help...

276981




opening bid is $1500 - description is below

Want to own the most powerful production revolver in the world? Here's your chance! We have the Smith & Wesson 500 with 4" barrel with muzzle compensator. This revolver is a handful and packs plenty of punch for you recoil junkies. Add this to your backpack for the next trip to Alaska, and be prepared fot any pesky grizzlys.

Ammo USED to be at least $5 a round, if you could find it. Prices have dropped to around $3 a round, IF YOU CAN FIND IT... different circumstances with similar results.



300 gr $2.95 each (20 round bx)
400 gr $2.30 each (10 round bx)
500 gr $3.05 each (200 round cs)



what's your life worth? AT LEAST $2000?
 
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Camping and having a B&T folded up in a backpack is pretty much perfect in my opinion. Good call

Agreed. Won't do anything a good 9mm cartridge can't do, assuming we're talking self defense against 2-legged critters. Shot placement is still king.

That being said, B&T's APC10mm PCC has caught my attention, but only for the sole purpose of camping/hiking/fishing out west where my brother lives and one might encounter a small bear or cat. Even then, I'm not so sure 10mm is going to save my ass when Mother Bear comes charging. A good 9mm will probably be sufficient against a stalking cat...
 

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If you simply MUST go with 500 S&W here is a much better platform:
I know a guy with 2 of the revolvers and one of the Model 89s.

I have a couple 50 Beowulf ARs which are pretty close to the same thing in a semi auto carbine w/ seven round mags.

I pretty much find the grips on a large bore magnum handgun pretty much make or break the utility of the gun.
The S&W factory target grips on the 29 are abysmal. Same gun with a set of Hogue monogrips is a completely controllable easy to shoot package.
 
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