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Er spricht schlechtes Deutsch...
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hmm. Haven't been happy with the red dot situation with the Aimpoint T2 on BT 10266. Too busy with absolute co-witness, especially with shooting weak side. Just picked up a Scalarworks LEAP mount, and it is sort of what I need, with some drawbacks.

It works FANTASTICALLY with my @rollerlocksevolved ACR MP5 stock. This thing is a work of ART.

The drawback is that despite the tunnel of option that the LEAP mount gives to go back to iron sights, the ACR stock prevents sighting with the irons alone. I don't know what to suggest on that.

I wanted the dot to be all alone in space. This mount gives me that.

The less cool factor is that the mount had to be mounted backwards to fit on the latter generation 10266. It wouldn't fit otherwise.

So there's that.

Anyway, the journey continues. Going to sight in tomorrow, and shoot in an IDPA match Tuesday night. Will report back afterward.

Your thoughts?

IMG_5024.jpg
 

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Vendor
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Thanks for the kind words on our ACR adapter and stock! The main drive behind its creation was exactly as you described in offering more optics options for the platform.

But, there will always be drawbacks and the largest one is the inability to use the factory iron sights with the ACR stock. I've heard this more frequently from our law enforcement friends, who have given us a pretty constant string of requests for a system that gives them optics capability and iron sights as backups. I'm not going to say it's impossible but it is extremely challenging and thus one of the reasons the iron sight/co-witness/optics mount discussions will continue to live on for years.

I see myself as having two options: 1) Design a new stock specifically for the MP5 that fits nearly every original and clone model known while providing positive check weld for both optics and iron sights or 2) continue developing that capability into our chassis system and some other projects we've got in the works.

Personally, I'd love both the optics capability and the iron sights as backups on my setup.

I know there will always be a desire to create options for existing platforms so I'll pursue both. I don't have a timeline on the stock since it's just a twinkle in the eye right now, but we're making progress on the chassis. Within about 5-6 weeks I should be able to show off one of the projects that specifically addresses optics mounts for the legacy MP5. It's going to be another one of those "Why didn't I think about that?" moments for some people and those are usually the best!
 

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Tom, you joked about my "squirrel chewed" rear sight last week, but it really works with the Aimpoint set up. It cleans up the sight picture for red dot use letting you center the dot in the sight (dot appears above front sight but inside shroud), and allows a quick switch to iron or co-witness when desired. I opened up the big hole on this one, but after your advice on using the big or little hole exclusively on the diopter, I'm going to hack another (US made) rear diopter drum cutting one of the unloved intermediate holes.

Mike

SP5 rear1.jpg sp5 rear2.jpg
 

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Premium Member
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I think the solution starts with an updated triple tree (no front sight blade or hood). It needs a pic rail at the correct height to match rail on receiver and then add BUIS with an optic that has clear/clean center dot. Another option would be a flip up front sight. The receiver rail starts at the stock, so plenty of rail space away from cocking handle. Once the rail is correct then match a correct height stock comb. Basically make the MP5 versatile with many options of sights and optics.

My two cents
 

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This is my MP5 10mm clone rifle used for hog hunting from bow stands. I had TPM mill the welded top pic rail to accept an ACOG. The screw is located inside the receiver and comes up. The beautiful part of this option is low profile. I can use any standard MP5 stock height with a good cheek weld, plus I can peak under and tunnel aim with front blade.

544EC667-AF61-42B8-9BE4-4C6211905B07.jpeg 79D708FA-70D1-41FE-9D4D-F34B26808370.jpeg 04F01499-845B-4998-83DE-371979049FA5.jpeg 0ACA5E1D-D755-48C4-8EDB-F97351BD1677.jpeg
 

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Would a compromise possibly work? I had a similar issue with an AK setup where I wanted to use a LPVO as the primary and still have access to the irons. For one setup the Zhukov with removable cheek riser was the first attempt. The second was with an adjustable height stock, fit the height for two positions. One was for a cheek weld for irons and for LPVO cheek to jaw weld. It might not make much sense in words, but could be a possible solution.
 

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Sheepdog in West Texas
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I don't have a full size MP5 9mm

Mine is the SP5k, the earlier model one that I bought two or three years ago.

Took me a couple of years to investigate and then decide which direction I wanted to go.

I ended up using an ultra low mount with the Sig Romeo5, that co-witness' the front site. Funny part is, If I don't want to use the red dot, turn it off. Then you are looking through the Sig Romeo5 AT the front site. Here is the picture with the red dot on the front site.

SP5k with Sig Romeo5 co witness.jpg

I will have to see if I've got a pix with the red dot off. Basically that site picture without the red dot...

I have not decided on my other SP5k and what optic I'll put on that one.

here is my SP5k with Romeo5 site

SP5k with brace and RDS 4b.jpg
 

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What height on the scalar works are you using? I'm running the same B&T low mount with a T2 but an A2 stock. I'm shooting my gun in USPSA and IDPA and finding the crowded sight picture is holding me back a bit. I want a taller mount but don't want to loose my irons. Your setup looks like a good solution.

(Aside: Kinda hate the T2, should have just bought 2 PRO's instead)
 

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Vendor
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What height on the scalar works are you using? I'm running the same B&T low mount with a T2 but an A2 stock. I'm shooting my gun in USPSA and IDPA and finding the crowded sight picture is holding me back a bit. I want a taller mount but don't want to loose my irons. Your setup looks like a good solution.

(Aside: Kinda hate the T2, should have just bought 2 PRO's instead)
There's not a happy medium or compromise in regards to attaining both a taller mount and keeping the irons. With the permanent attachment of the rear diopter base and front post sight you'll have to work around them as your base of operations. That quickly escalates into the "cowitness discussion" where numerous threads exists to discuss exactly that. We built the ACR adapter specifically for people who wanted to run an optic as their primary with the knowledge that using the irons would be next to impossible. It's a limiting factor to be sure, but gives a great cheek weld with the optics use. The Scalarworks is probably the best for iron sights capability with an optics mount but you're going to have to choose between cheek weld (like on the ACR stock) and jumping back and forth on the different heights. It's one of those fun challenges of running these guns, and I hope you enjoy working through it to fine tune your rig the way you want.
 

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I think the solution starts with an updated triple tree (no front sight blade or hood). It needs a pic rail at the correct height to match rail on receiver and then add BUIS with an optic that has clear/clean center dot. Another option would be a flip up front sight. The receiver rail starts at the stock, so plenty of rail space away from cocking handle. Once the rail is correct then match a correct height stock comb. Basically make the MP5 versatile with many options of sights and optics.
This

My last mp5 build I cut off the front site, didn't add the rear sight. Welded rail and I can mount whatever I want to fit the stock. Im sure I will hear the OMG HK fans talk about BUIS. With today optics you dont need them IMO. The rear sight is the worst, due to design.

The drum with a RD mounted cowitness is dumb, you lose much of your "FOV" due to the black blob that close enough to focus plane to be a problem, sure you can look over it but it sucks. (See OPs post), people that try an shoot the MP5 fast and accurate use a RD mounted above the Irons.
I do want to try that ACR stock, It would go perfect with my no irons MP5. It looks like about the same height as my UBRs on my 21/23e. Which get your cheek up higher, so you can see a wider area while still focusing on the target=faster shots.
 

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Vendor
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This

My last mp5 build I cut off the front site, didn't add the rear sight. Welded rail and I can mount whatever I want to fit the stock. Im sure I will hear the OMG HK fans talk about BUIS. With today optics you dont need them IMO. The rear sight is the worst, due to design.

The drum with a RD mounted cowitness is dumb, you lose much of your "FOV" due to the black blob that close enough to focus plane to be a problem, sure you can look over it but it sucks. (See OPs post), people that try an shoot the MP5 fast and accurate use a RD mounted above the Irons.
I do want to try that ACR stock, It would go perfect with my no irons MP5. It looks like about the same height as my UBRs on my 21/23e. Which get your cheek up higher, so you can see a wider area while still focusing on the target=faster shots.
I'll also be one of those that disparages against the original sights. On a legacy build, absolutely keep them. But for working around they become a PITA quite quickly.
We've got the ACR stocks in stock on the website. Shoot me a PM or an email and I'll give you a discount code for being on HKPro. Every little bit helps! When you've got them side by side I'd love to see the ACR next to your UBR on the 21/23E. The cheek weld and raised profile are absolutely perfect for optics (I'm a little biased) and I think you're going to love it. Strike that...I know you're going to love it.
 

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Its not an MP so its not a 1:1 comparison and it looks kind of awkward on my green 91, but a Holosun 503 gives me a good view of the irons and you can ignore most of the sight ring otherwise. It also comes with short and tall mounts so you don't have to buy extra stuff, here are some mediocre pics:

IMG_20200914_181052_1.jpg IMG_20200914_181106_4.jpg IMG_20200914_181552_1.jpg

(note, the riser mount is backwards, it has since been flipped and mounted correctly)
 

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HK= NFG 4 the Wallet
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Last weekend was my REAL first time shooting the MP5 platform as it was intended. Prior to, I was just target/plinking with it. It was an eye opening in respect to my optic mounting decision and had me re-evaluate it. I was using a Holosun 503 mounted on on an MFI mount. When in a hurry, pulling back on the charging handle and slapping closed, I kept hitting the mount. This drove me to do something different. I already designed my own rear sight replacement mount for the RMR/507C for my PDW so transferred that thought over to the MP5. I'm on the 3rd revision right now but here is a glimpse. It's nothing new but it's my own design. LOS is right through the front sight as is.

Trying to avoid this
YpR9orQ - Imgur.jpg
Here is before
ogh7w3F - Imgur.jpg
Here is my attempt
I9ifqqZ - Imgur.jpg
 

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Priest of the P7
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4,795 Posts
Last weekend was my REAL first time shooting the MP5 platform as it was intended. Prior to, I was just target/plinking with it. It was an eye opening in respect to my optic mounting decision and had me re-evaluate it. I was using a Holosun 503 mounted on on an MFI mount. When in a hurry, pulling back on the charging handle and slapping closed, I kept hitting the mount. This drove me to do something different. I already designed my own rear sight replacement mount for the RMR/507C for my PDW so transferred that thought over to the MP5. I'm on the 3rd revision right now but here is a glimpse. It's nothing new but it's my own design. LOS is right through the front sight as is.

Trying to avoid this
View attachment 273920
Here is before
View attachment 273922
Here is my attempt
View attachment 273924
Seems more expensive to reinvent that wheel than to just cough up a hundred bucks for the finished product.
https://www.m8industriesllc.net/new-products/hk-mp5-sight-base-pic-rail-optic-mount
 

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HK= NFG 4 the Wallet
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Seems more expensive to reinvent that wheel than to just cough up a hundred bucks for the finished product.
https://www.m8industriesllc.net/new-products/hk-mp5-sight-base-pic-rail-optic-mount

Thanks, I've seen that, not what I want. It looks to be way above the center of the front sight. Besides, this venture is not costing me anything but spare time and plastic. Mostly all done at night while watching the tube. I did want his RMR mount but it was OOS and he was not producing any more for at time I needed it so I just made my own.
 

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Premium Member
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Thanks, I've seen that, not what I want. It looks to be way above the center of the front sight. Besides, this venture is not costing me anything but spare time and plastic. Mostly all done at night while watching the tube. I did want his RMR mount but it was OOS and he was not producing any more for at time I needed it so I just made my own.
This guy makes what you are mocking up fyi HK MP5 / G3 Micro Red Dot Rear Sight Adapter
 

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HK= NFG 4 the Wallet
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1,195 Posts
This guy makes what you are mocking up fyi HK MP5 / G3 Micro Red Dot Rear Sight Adapter

Thanks for that but the two I made have proven to be shooting worthy in 3D printed form. I may make one in aluminum at a later date. I did one to fit an RMR/507C for my PDW and one for the larger Aimpoint/503 screw pattern for my MP5. They both replace the rear sight and when using an A2 stock, LOS is directly through the front hoop. With the battery life and solar backup of the new optics these day, for me, I see no reason for irons anymore (I've even removed front blades). I appreciate the classical look but enjoy shooting much more and a RDS, or my case GDS is where its at.
 
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