Moving to Virginia in a couple weeks :0)
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18,617 Posts
Where are you moving from? :wink:
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619 Posts
God I hate moving...3 times in 2 years with old company. Hope it is a good thing for you and the family and good luck.
I spend a lot of time in MI both for work and pleasure and if I should see any of your "Michigan photo-shop" bears I will let you know ASAP!:wink:
Best of luck on the move!
I spend a lot of time in MI both for work and pleasure and if I should see any of your "Michigan photo-shop" bears I will let you know ASAP!:wink:
Best of luck on the move!
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95 Posts
I bet anywhere is nice compared to Michigan! Sorry, had to say it, GO BUCKS!!!
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1,054 Posts
You MUST go see the USS Wisconsin. An Iowa-class in all her glory is something to behold.
Walking around the shops and eateries in Colonial Williamsburg is a good time. That is the coolest Barnes & Noble I have ever seen as it doubles as William & Mary's bookstore. Jamestown is very interesting with digs and museums on site.
Walking around the shops and eateries in Colonial Williamsburg is a good time. That is the coolest Barnes & Noble I have ever seen as it doubles as William & Mary's bookstore. Jamestown is very interesting with digs and museums on site.
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81 Posts
Be sure to check out the Colonial Shooting Academy in Richmond. It is the nicest indoor range I have ever seen , and they allow full auto.
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8,751 Posts
And be sure to check out this club (Cavalier Rifle and Pistol Club). Takes about a year to get in, but really nice facilities and machine gun friendly:
Cavalier Rifle and Pistol Club Home Page, Welcome!
Cavalier Rifle and Pistol Club Home Page, Welcome!
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3,804 Posts
Virginia State Police - Resident Concealed Handgun Permits
Some other notable less well defined Virginia laws relating to firearms and Concealed Carry:
-You can carry in bars and resturants but cannot consume while doing so.
-You can drive onto school property with the firearm in the car with your CCP but you cannot get out.
-You can carry in a church UNLESS the church has a sign posted not to.
-You can carry on the AT (Appalachian Trail) thru VA IF your permit is recognized by VA.
-You cannot carry while on Federal property (parks, etc.) where posted NO FIREARMS or those in Maryland or DC.
-You cannot carry into businesses if they have it posted NO FIREARMS.
-Leave your fireamrms at home if you are entering Government facilities or military bases.
-Brandishing a firearm will get you in trouble EVEN IF you have a CCP.
-Open Carry is legal (BUT NOT ADVISABLE). VA has folks who will turn you in if they see a gun in public.
-Various universities have NO FIREARMS policies. Check first.
-Stay off the GW Parkway @ DC as part of it runs thru DC EVEN THOUGH it is on the "west bank" of the Potomac in VA.
-Stay out of the Peoples Socialist Republic of Maryland with a loaded firearm.
-County parks (some, not all) now allow CCP holders to carry there.
-Welcome to the VA Personal Property Tax system on your "toys" (cars, boats, etc.)
@ 21 states currently DO NOT HONOR the VA CCP. Great info on this and other subjects on Concealed Carry at the Virginia Citizens Defense League web site: http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html
Virginia is a great state (Commonwealth). Much of the state is still conservative except the liberal spillovers/lost territories around DC and Virginia Beach. LOTS of foreign languages spoken here so get used to it. We have a great govenor and AT - VERY gun friendly and hopefully will replace SEN Webb with a useful idiot when we replace that other useless idiot in November.
Welcome!
G3Kurz
Some other notable less well defined Virginia laws relating to firearms and Concealed Carry:
-You can carry in bars and resturants but cannot consume while doing so.
-You can drive onto school property with the firearm in the car with your CCP but you cannot get out.
-You can carry in a church UNLESS the church has a sign posted not to.
-You can carry on the AT (Appalachian Trail) thru VA IF your permit is recognized by VA.
-You cannot carry while on Federal property (parks, etc.) where posted NO FIREARMS or those in Maryland or DC.
-You cannot carry into businesses if they have it posted NO FIREARMS.
-Leave your fireamrms at home if you are entering Government facilities or military bases.
-Brandishing a firearm will get you in trouble EVEN IF you have a CCP.
-Open Carry is legal (BUT NOT ADVISABLE). VA has folks who will turn you in if they see a gun in public.
-Various universities have NO FIREARMS policies. Check first.
-Stay off the GW Parkway @ DC as part of it runs thru DC EVEN THOUGH it is on the "west bank" of the Potomac in VA.
-Stay out of the Peoples Socialist Republic of Maryland with a loaded firearm.
-County parks (some, not all) now allow CCP holders to carry there.
-Welcome to the VA Personal Property Tax system on your "toys" (cars, boats, etc.)
@ 21 states currently DO NOT HONOR the VA CCP. Great info on this and other subjects on Concealed Carry at the Virginia Citizens Defense League web site: http://www.vcdl.org/static/ccw.html
Virginia is a great state (Commonwealth). Much of the state is still conservative except the liberal spillovers/lost territories around DC and Virginia Beach. LOTS of foreign languages spoken here so get used to it. We have a great govenor and AT - VERY gun friendly and hopefully will replace SEN Webb with a useful idiot when we replace that other useless idiot in November.
Welcome!
G3Kurz
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81 Posts
G3Kurz,
I do not mean any offense or disrespect. However I'm not sure what you mean by, "VA DOES NOT HAVE the Castle Doctrine." The true castle doctrine is the common law rule that you do not have a duty to retreat in your home. This most certainly is the law in Virginia. You do not have to retreat in your home. Gilbert v. Commonwealth, 28 Va. App. 466, 472-73 (1998).
Further, you don't have a duty to retreat in public unless you are at least partially at fault for causing the confrontation. See Avert v. Commonwealth, 279 Va. 175, 199-200 (2010).
I recently researched these issues while preparing to teach the legal section of the NRA Personal Protection in the Home class. That said, my advice is that you should never use deadly force unless you or another innocent person you choose to protect is going to suffer death or serious physical injury otherwise.
Open carry is legal. I've never seen any authority for the proposition that "more than one third" has to be visible for it to be open carry, but I would be interested if there is such a case. There is emerging law that open carry alone does not consitute reasonable suspiscion for a Terry stop, but I generally agree that you should be judicious about when and where you open carry. I generally limit it to trips to the range and going hunting.
And, yes, I am licensed to practice law in Virginia. I'm happy to discuss issues of firearms law and deadly force anytime.
Check6,
MDF
I do not mean any offense or disrespect. However I'm not sure what you mean by, "VA DOES NOT HAVE the Castle Doctrine." The true castle doctrine is the common law rule that you do not have a duty to retreat in your home. This most certainly is the law in Virginia. You do not have to retreat in your home. Gilbert v. Commonwealth, 28 Va. App. 466, 472-73 (1998).
Further, you don't have a duty to retreat in public unless you are at least partially at fault for causing the confrontation. See Avert v. Commonwealth, 279 Va. 175, 199-200 (2010).
I recently researched these issues while preparing to teach the legal section of the NRA Personal Protection in the Home class. That said, my advice is that you should never use deadly force unless you or another innocent person you choose to protect is going to suffer death or serious physical injury otherwise.
Open carry is legal. I've never seen any authority for the proposition that "more than one third" has to be visible for it to be open carry, but I would be interested if there is such a case. There is emerging law that open carry alone does not consitute reasonable suspiscion for a Terry stop, but I generally agree that you should be judicious about when and where you open carry. I generally limit it to trips to the range and going hunting.
And, yes, I am licensed to practice law in Virginia. I'm happy to discuss issues of firearms law and deadly force anytime.
Check6,
MDF
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3,804 Posts
None taken MDF!
I am not one to argue with lawyers and I learn new things each day so no worries.
It is important that what is posted here, especially on this topic, is up-to-date and accurate.
Glad to have your expertise.
My source was the "Traveler's Guide to Firearm Laws in the Fifty States" (2012 edition) if I recall correctly (Traveler's Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States). There it states VA has no Castle Doctrine law but I will double check this this evening to be 100% sure.
As for the definition of concealed carry (1/3 visible) I will look that up this evening as well and provide the source and correct my post is needed.
G3Kurz
I am not one to argue with lawyers and I learn new things each day so no worries.
It is important that what is posted here, especially on this topic, is up-to-date and accurate.
Glad to have your expertise.
My source was the "Traveler's Guide to Firearm Laws in the Fifty States" (2012 edition) if I recall correctly (Traveler's Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States). There it states VA has no Castle Doctrine law but I will double check this this evening to be 100% sure.
As for the definition of concealed carry (1/3 visible) I will look that up this evening as well and provide the source and correct my post is needed.
G3Kurz
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8,751 Posts
While the true common law term is certainly an interesting discussion, much like a discussion that the grip of a pistol is really the pistol stock, for those looking for it's practical application, read here:
http://www.ammoland.com/2012/03/09/virginias-castle-doctrine-bills-are-dead/#axzz20pNxgIBm
‘Castle doctrine’ bill fails with help from Va. gun-rights group - Virginia Politics - The Washington Post
PS. Register your machine guns with the state police within 24 hours of bringing them into the state.
PPS. A sear is not considered a machine gun in Virginia.
http://www.ammoland.com/2012/03/09/virginias-castle-doctrine-bills-are-dead/#axzz20pNxgIBm
‘Castle doctrine’ bill fails with help from Va. gun-rights group - Virginia Politics - The Washington Post
PS. Register your machine guns with the state police within 24 hours of bringing them into the state.
PPS. A sear is not considered a machine gun in Virginia.
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1,785 Posts
I hope that's your advice, since anything else would be a murder charge and castle doctrine wouldn't matter anyway.... :wink:
The 1/3 thing is generally the rule of thumb. Not adhering to that might be legal, but it's also going to attract unwanted attention in the form of being jailed while someone sorts it out.......especially if you're in Richmond or Fairfax/Alexandria/ect where the police are known to not be as 2A friendly as the rest of the state (which is generally awesome).
Wolvee, check out vaguntrader.com. Sign up. You can buy/sell/trade handguns in Virginia FTF without any paperwork, it makes it real nice to swap out guns just for fun. In one year I think I did about 9 or so private transactions.
DO NOT GO TO THE GUNSHOWS. They are a ripoff and full of whacko buffoons. Most of the tables will have crappy deals and half the tables will be airsoft and knives anyway. If you're looking for good deals on NIB guns, there should be kitchen-table FFL's by you.
Don't you scuba dive? I think I talked to you about that. If I'm not mistaken, let me know. You're only a few hours away from some of the best scuba diving in the world (Hatteras)....that whole area was my stomping grounds. Pretty much every free weekend I had from MCB Quantico was spent driving down to Va Beach or the Outer Banks.
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81 Posts
That is certainly true. LOL. What I meant to communicate is that whether you have a duty to do so or not, if you can safely retreat and avoid shooting someone, you should. Your life will never be better tomorrow because you shot someone today.
Just to clarify, Virginia does not have a Castle Doctrine statute because the common law of Virginia already includes that doctrine, as well as a broader doctrine that you need not retreat, even outside your home, unless you are partially at fault for the confrontation. If you are at fault for the confrontation, then you must announce your desire for peace and retreat as far as you safely can before employing a reasonable degree of force (which might be deadly force depending on the circumstances.) By the way, its called the Castle Doctrine because you don't have to retreat in your home because your home is your castle at common law. That's why it sounds silly for someone to talk about the "castle doctrine" when they mean not having a duty to retreat outside your home.
The concealed weapon statute says that in order to constitute the crime of carrying a concealed weapon, the weapon must be "hidden from common observation." (See Code of Virginia 18.2-308). That is an inherently subjective standard. There is a reported case where all but a couple of inches of the pistol were in guy's pocket, and even the part sticking out was hard to observe--the court considered that sufficiently hidden from common observation. Slayton v. Commonwealth, 41 Va. App. 124 (2003). There is an older case with similar facts where a pistol was deemed concealed where the handle of the weapon was sticking out of the guy's pocket, but it was covered by a duffle bag. Main v. Commonwealth, 20 Va. App. 370 (1995).
Personally, if I were going to open carry and I lacked a CHP as a backup plan, I would use an outside the pants holster and make sure I wasn't covering the pistol with a bag or the like.
Finally, if you want to get your legal advice from a quote from a political activist (albeit an effective one whom I respect) as reported by a newspaper story, then go ahead and do that. I suggest that if you are putting your liberty on the line you look for a more definitive source of information. Note that I have included citations for each proposition of law I have offered in the thread.
ETA: if anyone would like copies of the cases I have cited, PM me with your e-mail address and I'll send them.
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The "common" usage of the term "castle doctrine" is the use of lethal force against an intruder inside your home without the necessity to first determine if they represent a lethal threat. The fact that they are an intruder automatically dictates the presumption of a lethal threat to the lawful inhabitants. Going from my old flawed memory, I "think", much like people who rob banks are presumed armed regardless of a threat or display of a weapon.
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MDF
My sources for the two statements in my original post (now modified) are as follows.
Castle Doctrine
"Travelers Guide to Firearm Laws in the Fifty States" - 2012 Edition - Page 56
There it reads "Right of Self Defense: no NRA-model castle doctrine"
Definition of Concealed Carry - 1/3rd Exposed
VA Gun Info - Open Carry
There it reads:
What is “Open Carry”?
OC is the act of carrying a firearm (mostly handguns however rifles and shotguns may be OC’d) in plain sight on your person while conducting your daily business. This normally means a handgun secured in a holster on the outside of your clothing much the same way a police officer would carry their weapon. Alternative options would be a shoulder holster, “in the waistband” holster (providing your shirt is tucked in exposing the butt of the handgun) and tactical / drop leg holsters. “In the waistband” holsters are not considered “concealed” under VA law since about 1/3 of the firearm (the butt) is exposed (See example pictures below). Just take care not to let your shirt come un-tucked and cover the firearm if you are not in possession of a CHP. Carrying a firearm in your hands, whether handgun or long gun is not OC! That is considered “brandishing” and it's against the law. The proper way to OC a rifle or shotgun is with a sling, however OC’ing a rifle or shotgun around town is not common and will likely merit you a visit from the police, possibly with guns drawn on you.
As always the devil is in the details and one interpertation.
G3Kurz
My sources for the two statements in my original post (now modified) are as follows.
Castle Doctrine
"Travelers Guide to Firearm Laws in the Fifty States" - 2012 Edition - Page 56
There it reads "Right of Self Defense: no NRA-model castle doctrine"
Definition of Concealed Carry - 1/3rd Exposed
VA Gun Info - Open Carry
There it reads:
What is “Open Carry”?
OC is the act of carrying a firearm (mostly handguns however rifles and shotguns may be OC’d) in plain sight on your person while conducting your daily business. This normally means a handgun secured in a holster on the outside of your clothing much the same way a police officer would carry their weapon. Alternative options would be a shoulder holster, “in the waistband” holster (providing your shirt is tucked in exposing the butt of the handgun) and tactical / drop leg holsters. “In the waistband” holsters are not considered “concealed” under VA law since about 1/3 of the firearm (the butt) is exposed (See example pictures below). Just take care not to let your shirt come un-tucked and cover the firearm if you are not in possession of a CHP. Carrying a firearm in your hands, whether handgun or long gun is not OC! That is considered “brandishing” and it's against the law. The proper way to OC a rifle or shotgun is with a sling, however OC’ing a rifle or shotgun around town is not common and will likely merit you a visit from the police, possibly with guns drawn on you.
As always the devil is in the details and one interpertation.
G3Kurz
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1,785 Posts
Definitely, because brandishing can come in many other forms than just carrying a weapon in your hands. You don't even need to touch your weapon in order to brandish it. Source: § 18.2-282
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