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Hi all,

I've been looking around on here for information regarding which brand of clone to buy- it sounds like vector is pretty good? I would really like to buy an MP5 clone in a 9mm- does anyone make these? If so, which brand would you recommend? I would prefer to avoid having to replace a bunch of new parts to make it work once it is in my possession. In addition, this would have to be civilian legal- I don't have a class III license, and am not interested in giving up certain rights to obtain one (I am told that in order to have one, you are obligated to consent to forfeiting certain rights). Is this true?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Shay
 

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Hi all,

I've been looking around on here for information regarding which brand of clone to buy- it sounds like vector is pretty good? I would really like to buy an MP5 clone in a 9mm- does anyone make these? If so, which brand would you recommend? I would prefer to avoid having to replace a bunch of new parts to make it work once it is in my possession. In addition, this would have to be civilian legal- I don't have a class III license, and am not interested in giving up certain rights to obtain one (I am told that in order to have one, you are obligated to consent to forfeiting certain rights). Is this true?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Shay

I own 2 Bobcat MP5 clones, and they work great out of the box. With the clones, regardless of maker, it's pretty much hit or miss with the function. A friend of mine bought a Vector V53, and it works great as well, however a cop I know bought the Vector MP5 in .40 cal, and has not gotten through a complete mag yet without a fail. Even with that said, it seems like the 2 best brands are Vector and Bobcat.
I've held a Coharie, and though about buying one(for the price it is tempting...), but I was amazed at how terrible the finish of the gun was. It looked like it was Krylon-coated. Also, I couldn't get the magazine to drop free without some hard pulling.
As for the legalities, depending on your state, as long as you either:
A) get the rifle with the 16" barrel or the fake suppressor
or
B) get the pistol version(not very fun to shoot..)
They are civi legal.

If you decide to SBR the gun down the road, the pistol is an easier mod.(ie no cutting req'd), however the rifle is more fun to shoot while you're waiting on your stamp.

Just my .02
Good luck.
DT
 

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The only companies who are currently producing an MP5/9mm are Coharie and Professional Arms.

The MK5 (Professional Arms) might not be in a non-SBR configuration and will still take you over a year to get. And it's $2,200. It requires UMP mags so the standard MP5 mags won't work. You're stuck with $50+ for each mag.

The Coharie is about $1,000 and are expected to be available in the next couple of months. Maybe sooner if you find one in stock or on Gunbroker. A lot of people have reported the latest version as 100% functional right out of the box. You can replace the whole bolt assy and fire control group and still be under $2,000. But remember that if you are replacing these parts with foriegn ones then you'll need to convert it to some NFA status to avoid violating 922R.

Other clones, like BW5 and V94 (Vector, not Vulcan) are available on the used market but will cost you around $2,000, or close to it anyway. And then you won't always know what parts are in it or if it's even legal.

Buying HK type guns is NOT economical. If you've made up your mind to buy this type then you'd better become comfortable with spending more money on it. Otherwise, you'll just end up with something to hang on the wall and show your friends... so just get an airsoft. ;)
 

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Right now your best bet is too go with Coharie, or wait until Vector makes new HK clones, if ever. The MK5 will be great, but unless you really want to spend $2.2k on what looks like a really top-notch firearm then right now Cohaireis probably your best bet.
On the used market, a BW might be okay as well.
 

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In addition, this would have to be civilian legal- I don't have a class III license, and am not interested in giving up certain rights to obtain one (I am told that in order to have one, you are obligated to consent to forfeiting certain rights). Is this true?
You don't have to get your dealer/FFL license to gain access to the restricted stuff (SBR's, suppressors, full-auto), but if you plan on buying a lot of these types of things, it will be much cheaper for you in the long run. I'm in the process of buying a .22 suppressor, and as part of that process I had to get my county Sheriff to sign off on it (not all of them will do it), and I have to submit paperwork and $200 to the ATF for their approval (i.e. a background check). Maybe the ATF can come by my house and ask to see the suppressor whenever they want? That's fine, wait right here and I'll go get it out of the safe. I think you have to notify them whenever you change addresses too, so that they'll know where the item is.

If I remember right, the thing about a dealer license is that you need to have some kind of store front (my FFL in a neighboring town does it out of his house) and I think they want you to have some good way of securing the weapons as well. I can imagine that your local Police/Sheriff wouldn't be too happy with knowing that one of the locals has an unsecured arsenal in his house, I wonder how liable you would be in criminal/civil court if weapons that were stolen from your home were used to commit a crime. Buy a safe, secure it to the foundation of your house and let the local PD come take a look at the setup once if it makes them feel better.

There are two dimensions to the cost-side of the equation. License renewal fees vs tax stamps, and the cost of weapons. My FFL's license is $500 per year (ouch, right?), BUT tax stamps are $200 a pop. So do the math and see where the advantage is there. The big difference though is the cost of pre/post-86 weapons. If you aren't a dealer, a transferable pre-86 full-auto SBR'd MP5 like you see in the movies will cost you in the neighborhood of $15-20K. If you are a dealer, you can buy post-86 (i.e. factory-new dealer samples) weapons for probably 1/10th of that. Here's an example of a post-86 gun from Gunbroker. My FFL has a bunch of them, and he brings them all out to show off every time I get a pistol or rifle through him. Come to think of it, he's kind of a jerk for doing that :D.

What rights do you think you are giving up by going through either of these processes? In both processes you are attempting to own a special class of firearms or related items that are heavily regulated by the federal government, so I'm sure that they would want some way to follow up on whether or not you still have the items in your possession. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone not going through the process because of privacy/rights concerns, we gun folks don't usually mind the hoops we have to jump through to get our toys :D.
 

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You don't have to get your dealer/FFL license to gain access to the restricted stuff (SBR's, suppressors, full-auto), but if you plan on buying a lot of these types of things, it will be much cheaper for you in the long run. I'm in the process of buying a .22 suppressor, and as part of that process I had to get my county Sheriff to sign off on it (not all of them will do it), and I have to submit paperwork and $200 to the ATF for their approval (i.e. a background check). Maybe the ATF can come by my house and ask to see the suppressor whenever they want? That's fine, wait right here and I'll go get it out of the safe. I think you have to notify them whenever you change addresses too, so that they'll know where the item is.

If I remember right, the thing about a dealer license is that you need to have some kind of store front (my FFL in a neighboring town does it out of his house) and I think they want you to have some good way of securing the weapons as well. I can imagine that your local Police/Sheriff wouldn't be too happy with knowing that one of the locals has an unsecured arsenal in his house, I wonder how liable you would be in criminal/civil court if weapons that were stolen from your home were used to commit a crime. Buy a safe, secure it to the foundation of your house and let the local PD come take a look at the setup once if it makes them feel better.

There are two dimensions to the cost-side of the equation. License renewal fees vs tax stamps, and the cost of weapons. My FFL's license is $500 per year (ouch, right?), BUT tax stamps are $200 a pop. So do the math and see where the advantage is there. The big difference though is the cost of pre/post-86 weapons. If you aren't a dealer, a transferable pre-86 full-auto SBR'd MP5 like you see in the movies will cost you in the neighborhood of $15-20K. If you are a dealer, you can buy post-86 (i.e. factory-new dealer samples) weapons for probably 1/10th of that. Here's an example of a post-86 gun from Gunbroker. My FFL has a bunch of them, and he brings them all out to show off every time I get a pistol or rifle through him. Come to think of it, he's kind of a jerk for doing that :D.

What rights do you think you are giving up by going through either of these processes? In both processes you are attempting to own a special class of firearms or related items that are heavily regulated by the federal government, so I'm sure that they would want some way to follow up on whether or not you still have the items in your possession. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone not going through the process because of privacy/rights concerns, we gun folks don't usually mind the hoops we have to jump through to get our toys :D.
you forgot to mention the little fact that you have to get an Demo letter from a LE agency. This is probably hard to do since they usually already have a supplier in the good-ol boy network. So I hope you know the Sheriff or the Chief of Police of your town/county.
 

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The Pro Arms Mk5 also has the ability to swap out barrels in under a minute, is capable of accepting multiple calibres with the appropriate barrel and bolt head, and has a last shot bolt hold open. I think it has distinct advantages that qualify its price tag.
 

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As a civilian, you can own an NFA item (Short barreled rifle, Mchinegun, silencer, etc.) as lon as your state allows those items. Doing so does not forfeit ANY rights, even right of search and seisure.

IF you get a class 3 license, you ARE subject to unannounced inspections by the ATF, although even then, I believe they are required to give you certain notice (maybe 24 hours?).

But civilians can obtain NFA items without the worry about unannounced inspections.

Now, on the other hand... if the BATFE has reason to believe you are doing something ilegal, they can obtain a warrant, but the same holds true for any type of suspected criminal activity.

If you want an MP5, and if your state allows it... then go for it... you lose absolutely no rights by doing so.
 

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you forgot to mention the little fact that you have to get an Demo letter from a LE agency. This is probably hard to do since they usually already have a supplier in the good-ol boy network. So I hope you know the Sheriff or the Chief of Police of your town/county.
Those letters only apply to obtaining post '86 dealer samples.
 

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Vector is still making the V89 40 cal full size pistols. They had 15 in stock, now they only have 14... ;) Cost was $1535 shipped to my FFL (I paid extra for 3 day shipping).

Once I get it I'll get some pics up and take it to our local indoor range and beat it up a bit.
 

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................I've held a Coharie, and though about buying one(for the price it is tempting...), but I was amazed at how terrible the finish of the gun was. It looked like it was Krylon-coated.............
My friend said the same thing about the one he saw too. The local shop owner down here had talked to Cohaire/Coharie before they sold their stake and the next generations coating looked better judging from the one I saw. I'm not sure what the coatings are like now.
 

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As I understand it, you only have to notify the BATFE if you move to a new state. Moving within the state you already have the NFA item in doesnt require you to notify them.

I'm sure one of the experts around this board will come on shortly and confirm or deny my impression.

J
 

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As I understand it, you only have to notify the BATFE if you move to a new state. Moving within the state you already have the NFA item in doesnt require you to notify them.

I'm sure one of the experts around this board will come on shortly and confirm or deny my impression.

J
You have to get permission to transport a NFA weapon to another state. You can haul it around to go shooting in your own state if it's permitted throughout your state, without notifying the BATFE. I believe that you have to send them a "change of address" notice any time you move, even if it's in the same state that you originally registered.
 

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My friend said the same thing about the one he saw too. The local shop owner down here had talked to Cohaire/Coharie before they sold their stake and the next generations coating looked better judging from the one I saw. I'm not sure what the coatings are like now.
I like the coating/finish on my new CA89k. It seems even tougher than the one on my HK91. But I haven't torture tested either one.
 

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+1
I am anxiously waiting for them to be released. The quality is supposed to be second only to HK.
FYP.

I'd not be shocked if it were better than HK. But we'll have to wait and see.
 

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What rights do you think you are giving up by going through either of these processes? In both processes you are attempting to own a special class of firearms or related items that are heavily regulated by the federal government, so I'm sure that they would want some way to follow up on whether or not you still have the items in your possession. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone not going through the process because of privacy/rights concerns, we gun folks don't usually mind the hoops we have to jump through to get our toys :D.
"... shall not be infringed."

...
 

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The Coharie is about $1,000 and are expected to be available in the next couple of months. Maybe sooner if you find one in stock or on Gunbroker. A lot of people have reported the latest version as 100% functional right out of the box. You can replace the whole bolt assy and fire control group and still be under $2,000. But remember that if you are replacing these parts with foriegn ones then you'll need to convert it to some NFA status to avoid violating 922R.
I understand the legalities of us part count here, but why would you want to replace the bolt assembly and fire control group in the first place? If you pull the trigger and it goes bang ... I'm new to the whole HK-style rifle thing. Thanks for the explanation.
 
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