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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I already have a MP5 clone rifle and have both the A2 and collapsible stock. I now want to buy a MP5 type pistol as well, but can I? Since I will have 2 stocks that will fit the pistol? Thanks.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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Be very careful. If you buy an MP5 pistol and have the components to under your roof to create an SBR, you could be committing what is known as constructive intent. Whether you get charged is up to the disposition of the officer at hand. This is not meant to be legal advice, just an opinion. The caffeine level of the officer, whether or not his/her significant other is providing gratification, your attitude, slow news day... all of these may contribute to whether you get enjoy a tour of the judicial system. Is it worth it to you?
 

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That's good advice right there !

Conventional wisdom says that as long as you can assemble all your guns into legal configuration, then you're OK, but that all depends on the enthusiasm level of a potentially over zealous officer who may be trying to make a name for him or her self.
 

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I asked the same question to a my ATF agent and was told to NEVER have the stock under the same roof. I informed them my stamp should be in my possession in a couple of weeks and the stock I wanted to buy may be gone by then. He informed me that I could purchase but not to have the 2 items under the same roof at any time. I asked could I store at a relatives until my stamp arrived and he said that would be "ok".
As Straightgrain stated! " This is not meant to be legal advice".
 

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.... and if you have multiple SBR's that accept these stocks and multiple rifles that also accept these stocks but are not SBR's and just not happen to be on a gun because you switch them around, then what? To me this is no different than possessing AR lowers that are registered and AR lowers that are not and at the same time having various length/caliber short barrel uppers that are not mated to a registered lower. As long as there are no short barrel uppers on a non registered lower and non registered lowers have their 16 in. or greater uppers you may posses these. This is written advice from my attorney who is also an NFA attorney.
 

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I just make sure I don't do anything to have the cops come to my house, haha. Right now I've got my UMP conversion and a 2nd barrel waiting for Form 1 approval to SBR it.
 

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I just make sure I don't do anything to have the cops come to my house, haha. Right now I've got my UMP conversion and a 2nd barrel waiting for Form 1 approval to SBR it.
So what if you have a fire or medical emergency at your house? You going to drag the collapsed person next door so no one will see the 2nd barrel? My life, at least, is that way. Things that I thought would never happen have. So I don't own items until I can legally. Hoping that know one will see it with the possibility of 10 years per count doesn't seem like a good idea to me. But that is just my opinion. My understanding is if you only own rifles and you purchase a barrel that style firearm which is less than 16" you could be charged. Now if you had a new receiver that wasn't built or a pistol that could use the barrel would be a different story.

I have 14 roller locked pistols, (with five more on the way) one converted 94 SBR and a Title I rifle to go with my Fleming sear. I keep the extra stocks and vertical foregrip with my SBR. The pistols I keep separate from the stocks, unless I install the sear. If you store the extra stock with the rifle and separate from the pistol, I'd think you'd be okay. Of course this advice is worth what you paid for it. Do some research and decide for yourself. YMMV.

Scott
 

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I do everything with the assumption that someday agents will raid my belongings and see if any of my firearms are illegal. This actually happening is highly unlikely, but it keeps you out of trouble in the event it does occur.

Even if you could fight it in court, it's not worth the trouble. No matter how ridiculous gun laws and their interpretations by the BATF are, it's always best to be 100% compliant.
 

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you are fine.

The place where you get into trouble is when the parts in your possession have no possible assembly configuration other than a non-registered SBR.

If you were to dispose of the rifle, make sure all shoulder stocks left your home as well.
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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.... and if you have multiple SBR's that accept these stocks and multiple rifles that also accept these stocks but are not SBR's and just not happen to be on a gun because you switch them around, then what? To me this is no different than possessing AR lowers that are registered and AR lowers that are not and at the same time having various length/caliber short barrel uppers that are not mated to a registered lower. As long as there are no short barrel uppers on a non registered lower and non registered lowers have their 16 in. or greater uppers you may posses these. This is written advice from my attorney who is also an NFA attorney.
Then you are likely good. But what you describe is NOT what the OP described. Having a legit and registered SBR on hand is an insurance policy. The OP specifically said that he was talking about a *pistol* and having A2 and A3 stocks from rifles. I'll clarify my comment: If those stocks are all attached to Title I guns, then I doubt there would be an issue, unless the cop had a really bad day. The problem magnifies when the stocks are just there as parts. On the rifles, the intent is clear. As parts, it is hard to be precise about what the intent is and it becomes easy for constructive possession to rear its ugly head.
 

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I understand where Straightgrain is coming from since I work in law enforcement and there are some overzealous officers out there. When I recently spoke with ATF about SBRing a weapon. I was informed that the parts are fine to own, just don't put them on the weapon until after the paperwork is approved. This is where folks get themselves jammed up. They send in a form 4 and then build the weapon. That is a big no no. I think its ridiculous to have to store parts at different residences. This is my two cents for what little it may be worth.

Sean
 

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Talk to an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction and ask him to review the Supreme Court opinion in the Thompson Center case. I believe there is also an ATF bulletin on their website in the subject. As long as you have a legal use for the parts and there is no evidence you have assembled them in an illegal configuration, I think you are good.

I would not advise possessing a short barrel for your UMP prior to getting your stamp back, because it had no legal use. The fact that you have a Form 1 pending might make it unlikely you will be prosecuted, but why take the chance?
 

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Merchant of Death (Admin)
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It's always a good idea to talk to an attorney for legal advice (as opposed to the net).

There was never any mention of a UMP.

The Thompson Center case is an amazingly entertaining bone of contention! It was particularly amusing to watch the former combatants, Ficaretta and Halbrook square off at an industry event over the "supposedly" already decided issue. I never heard so many sentences begin with "As my esteemed colleague is aware..."

Constructive possession/intent is a fluid concept that is dependent on many factors. The fact that lawyers often disagree over what it is and isn't means that those on scene, cops, agents, etc., are often left to their own discretion on when and what to charge. A "let the courts sort it out" approach. While you may, indeed, be in the right, it could be an arduous and expensive journey to prove it against a foe with unlimited resources.

My non legal advice is to establish a plausible and legal premise for all the goodies you will have at hand. Having an SBR approved and in hand is a great way to go, IMO. Failing that, keep all the parts that could potentially cause problems attached to weapons in a legal configuration and you should also be fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Firstly, thanks to all for your advice and insights.

I'm this pistol/rifle situation is something AR owners go over al the time. Although, I'm inclined to side with jdonovan, I can see straightgrain's Constructive possession point as well. I've searched other forums and it seems that just as long as both weapons are complete there 'should' be no problem.
 

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If someone with a badge/warrant has gone through all your stuff to the point of matching up stocks, receivers, pistols and rifles you are likely in deep deep poo and a lesser charge of constructive intent will be a minor charge compared to the probably several dozen other felony counts you've been charged with.
 

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So what if you have a fire or medical emergency at your house? You going to drag the collapsed person next door so no one will see the 2nd barrel? My life, at least, is that way. Things that I thought would never happen have. So I don't own items until I can legally. Hoping that know one will see it with the possibility of 10 years per count doesn't seem like a good idea to me. But that is just my opinion. My understanding is if you only own rifles and you purchase a barrel that style firearm which is less than 16" you could be charged. Now if you had a new receiver that wasn't built or a pistol that could use the barrel would be a different story.

I have 14 roller locked pistols, (with five more on the way) one converted 94 SBR and a Title I rifle to go with my Fleming sear. I keep the extra stocks and vertical foregrip with my SBR. The pistols I keep separate from the stocks, unless I install the sear. If you store the extra stock with the rifle and separate from the pistol, I'd think you'd be okay. Of course this advice is worth what you paid for it. Do some research and decide for yourself. YMMV.

Scott
It's a full size USC barrel, nothing illegal or gray area about it. Second, I don't leave my firearms laying around on the coffee table. That barrel is sitting in a box in my closet with miscellaneous other items.

Why are you all so paranoid about cops? The ones I know and have met don't know NFA rules like you all seem to give them credit. They're certainly not rifling through my stuff during a medical or fire emergency, either.
 

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I'm inclined to agree with kabob. I had a police officer ask me at the range one day what kind of gun I had. I said it was a clone of an HK MP5. He asked to shoot it. I said sure. He was upset cause he thought it was supposed to be an automatic. No mention of the short barrel or anything. I had to explain the whole 1986 ban on newly manufactured machine guns and showed him my stamp for the sbr. It was the first tax stamp he'd ever seen. He had no idea.
 

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....He was upset cause he thought it was supposed to be an automatic. No mention of the short barrel or anything. I had to explain the whole 1986 ban on newly manufactured machine guns and showed him my stamp for the sbr. It was the first tax stamp he'd ever seen. He had no idea.
Which pretty much bring this discussion full circle. Most LEO's don't know squat about NFA items or regulations. They see something like which is brandished on TV and it is a machinegun that civilians are NOT allowed to own so what are you doing with it?? So you have to be proactive, keep your stamps handy, know the law, have access to your attorney and don't place yourself in a situation where the ignorant could cause you a bad day.
KJHKPRO, procure an SBR stamp or a sear or keep the extra stock in a separate location.
 
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