HKPRO Forums banner
Cancel

MP5SD Ammo shootout

3580 Views 22 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  RDTS, 
F
After having some unexplainable misses, I decided to do some more formal testing with my MP5SD. I've heard these are ammo finicky, so I wanted to flesh that out and sort of decide what this gun likes and stick to it.


The gun:

DJG MP5SD with a TPM can. MKE magazines, Primary arms micro dot on a B&T low rail.

Distance: 25Y, fired off of a front rest

The contenders:

Wolf WPA Military Classic 115gr

American Eagle red box, 115gr.

Speer Gold Dot, 124 gr carry ammo

Handloads - Berry's 124gr

WWB, 115gr

Remington 115gr

Blazer brass 115

The targets: Courtesy of Senator Chuck McIlhinney. Thanksbro.

The method I used was to test them all and then circle back to the contenders when the gun was warm, so I would get an idea of what shot best throughout the spectrum of running the gun.

Wolf was first. The first eight rounds pounded into less than one inch, most on top of each other. (target 1)

Speer gold dot - Amazing. 9 under an inch with one right behind it. Again, flat out amazing. But at that price I expect so.

Rem 115 - severe impact shift noted from the others. Group was meh...

Blaser Brass 115 - Most within an inch and a half.

WWB - Terrible, with unexplainable flyers.

AE 115 - Pretty damn nice. 9 under an inch with one right outside that.

Berrys 124gr plated. These shoot amazing in my standard MP5 gun so I decided to try them here. Nope. Never again. I was astonished at how poorly they shot. This is a pretty hot load with an S&B primer and 6.2gr of alliant power pistol.

I circled back around to the AE 115, Wolf and the Speer, just because I liked what the Speer did so much and wanted to see if the gun being hot affected it.

It didn't. Similar results.

The wolf opened up a decent bit. I had high hopes of getting off cheap but it wasn't to be. The can worked loose on one group so I discounted it. The AE however, hung in there with the same POI all the way through.

I even removed the suppressor, tapped out some carbon and then reinstalled it and re-tested POI of the AE. There was no remarkable change.

I adjusted zero for wolf at this point, but I'm probably thinking that this gun, for what I have into it ought to eat better. If I'm not going to feed it steak and lobster (speer) at least I can give it a decent meal of AE.

Take a look at the attached pictures.

What's the hive say - Which would you go with?

Font Crossword Rectangle Square Games
Games Font Square Recreation Space
Auto part Plate
See less See more
3
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Teufelshund Tactical
It does not take this much effort to come to the realization that cheap, crappy ammo will not perform as well as more respected examples.
An additional concern is that with as dirty as the SD will already get, there is no need to make this worse by feeding it with ammo that is know for being dirty in itself.
Reply
Save
Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: 1
F
Marine0303 said:
It does not take this much effort to come to the realization that cheap, crappy ammo will not perform as well as more respected examples.
An additional concern is that with as dirty as the SD will already get, there is no need to make this worse by feeding it with ammo that is know for being dirty in itself.
Click to expand...
Honestly - this is the sum of what you have to contribute?
Reply
Save
Like
Teufelshund Tactical
fargo007 said:
Honestly - this is the sum of what you have to contribute?
Click to expand...
I've been shooting for long enough to know that if you want performance from your HK, feeding it poor quality ammo, just like feeding a Porsche poor quality fuel, is a recipe for disappointment.
I'm sure you can honestly tell yourself going into this that you already knew the same thing. I mean, really, did it surprise you that WWB would not perform well?
Reply
Save
Like
  • Helpful
Reactions: 1
estesmonkey
I agree ^^. The only rounds I saw mentioned that I use are AE. The rest with exception of the Speer, I do not even use on my handguns so I would not expect them to do well in a MP5, suppressed. I would not mind having your SD though...
Reply
Save
Like
caf82313
Just curious was the Can from the last run of cans TPM did? I have one waiting in limbo there was someone who posted he was having issues with his TPM can not sure if it got resolved....I will be running reloads through mine......
Reply
Save
Like
F
Marine0303 said:
I've been shooting for long enough to know that if you want performance from your HK, feeding it poor quality ammo, just like feeding a Porsche poor quality fuel, is a recipe for disappointment.
I'm sure you can honestly tell yourself going into this that you already knew the same thing. I mean, really, did it surprise you that WWB would not perform well?
Click to expand...
Of course. I was issued my first HK in 1986 so no, this isn't my first rodeo.

And it also isn't the conclusion I attempted to bear out. It's comparative testing to show HOW much better and HOW much worse between different brands and loads.

Wolf and WWB are both cheap low quality ammo for instance. We'd probably agree they would be poor choices compared to others before a trigger ever got pulled, but this shows how they compared to each other, and to other types of ammo out of a very unique firearm design known for being picky.

I know more than I did about what I can expect from these different ammo types in this gun. I don't agree that it wasn't necessary. I don't think you were looking at it through the right lens.
Reply
Save
Like
F
caf82313 said:
Just curious was the Can from the last run of cans TPM did? I have one waiting in limbo there was someone who posted he was having issues with his TPM can not sure if it got resolved....I will be running reloads through mine......
Click to expand...
Not the last batch but the previous one. I have one of the urbach designs.
Reply
Save
Like
T
fargo

thanks for your effort and your post

you didn't have to do it and you may have saved someone else some trouble, time, and/or money

I have been shooting an SD for about 25 years and am still learning things about it.

Have you tried the 165 gr United Nations FMJ?

k
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
D
Freddy,
Well done sir! You can NEVER have too much data in my opinion. You should see the notebooks & notebooks of data I compiled over the years. Wolff steel case has been very consistent for myself through the years….both in function & accuracy. Not bad for an inexpensive ammo.
Keep up the good work.
Thank you
Dj
Reply
Save
Like
AGG
Great, detailed report--- thanks!!! :biggrin:
Assists others in what to use, and not use. :wink:

Tony
Reply
Save
Like
straightgrain
This is NOT a general ammo discussion thread. It was allowed to remain because it was specifically addressing an HK application. Please do not turn it into a general ammo discussion.
Reply
Save
Like
F
Back to the specifics.

I figured it out. The answer was not to go hotter with this gun, it was to avoid going so damn hot, and to use a substantially faster powder and a good real jacketed bullet.

My hypothesis is that unburnt propellant continued pushing the bullet after it was uncorked from the crown, providing uneven force. Backing it down ensured all that propellant was consumed by the time the bullet left the muzzle crown.

Same drill. 25Y, target on the left is 3.7gr Titegroup with a Hornady and S&B primer. On the right is the same except a berry's 124 plated.

Nine Hornady's went into one hole that is slightly under 3/4". This outshot the gold dot. The other one was my bad. The berry's are 1.5"

Incidentally, I found that with a red dot optic at 25Y, a black square like this is absolutely ideal for zeroing.

My chrony is broke or I would have shot across it.

What did I learn?

1 - What works in a standard MP5 has nothing to do with the SD.

2 - It has an accuracy node that is dramatically different than what you would find in any other type of firearm.

3 - This gun is a Ferrari, and requires very subtle changes in approach with ammo.

I hope it helps somebody avoid the headscratching.

Font Visual arts Art House
See less See more
Reply
Save
Like
AGG
Thanks for the follow-up report!!! :biggrin:

Tony
Reply
Save
Like
MW2152
Thanks for posting all of this.

I would be curious to see the results from someone else doing exactly what you noted too, with the same ammo, distance, etc, and with a similar DJG gun and TPM suppressor as there are a lot of them out there, just to see if the results were the same as what you and DJ found. Not to verify what you did or check your work, but rather to verify as much as possible with the ammo types.

I have a hodge podge of ammo types, not typically being a case-at-a-time type buyer, but Wolf is generally available where I live, so I view this as maybe a lesson in what I want to set aside or seek out specifically for the SD as opposed to sending it down range through some other gun where the ammo type really will not possibly matter.
Reply
Save
Like
F
Understood - I would love for someone else to expand this into some other brands/ammo types that I didn't have access to.

The load I have shooting is pretty light according to the books, but I can't argue with the accuracy. I went back yesterday and pounded all ten into the black square. Seven of them in one hole.

Really nice take away I didn't expect was the 1.5" black square for red dot 25Y zeroing. That is one of the most perfect, precise sight pictures ever.
Reply
Save
Like
D
Freddy,
I am going through memory….I think the drop in MV through the SD averaged 11-12% in our experience. I can not recall how much energy dropped. Our objective at that time was not particularly with accuracy, but with function & MV change from stated ammo we used. At that time we were only using a genuine HK can…so get your chrony fixed sir.
Thank you
Dj
Reply
Save
Like
F
It's FUBAR so I'm gonna borrow.

How did you compare the MV change? Fake can, or use a pistol with similar barrel length?

I have a range of loads that shoot accurately and the gun operates them all flawlessly (thank you). But I don't know what the common denominator is yet. It very well could be a velocity curve per bullet weight since I have examples of 115's and 124's that both shoot very well. I have determined by trial it's not bullet specific, so you're absolutely right;

Velocity is still an unexplored variable here.
Reply
Save
Like
Mr.Maim
Thanks for taking the time to make this writeup. I'm an information junkie and things like this are great if just to see 'what does what'.

You can borrow my Chrony I have the new bluetooth transmitter. :wink:
Reply
Save
Like
D
Freddy,
We did not establish our own "base line" for MV. We used the published MV stated by each of the Manufacture's ammo as our base line. We did not use any "hand loads" in our testing, only factory loads. If you are using "hand loads", then you must obviously create your own base line. I would use a 4" barrel to establish a base line.
Thank you
Dj
Reply
Save
Like
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
HKPRO Forums
A forum dedicated to and laser-focused on Heckler & Koch firearms, Heckler & Koch accessories and the owners and enthusiasts that love them! Come join the discussion regarding HK pistols, long arms, NFA arms, HK accessories, HK history and trivia and more.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
HK HANDGUN TALK HK CLONE TALK HK LONG GUN TALK HK NFA TALK HK416 and HK417 HQ
Top