MR556 10k rounds keyholing?

15909 Views 68 Replies 28 Participants Last post by Chui, Aug 7, 2015

PAGunner

Discussion Starter · Jul 18, 2015

High round count AR/M4's (over 100,000 rounds) and how they have handled on our range - AR15.COM

The owner doesn't have a dog in the fight, sees a lot of rounds go down range including suppressed and with the fun switch. He doesn't seem too impressed with the MR556 barrels. Anyone else get keyholing after 10k rounds?

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Tspeis

· #2 · Jul 19, 2015

PAGunner said:
High round count AR/M4's (over 100,000 rounds) and how they have handled on our range - AR15.COM

The owner doesn't have a dog in the fight, sees a lot of rounds go down range including suppressed and with the fun switch. He doesn't seem too impressed with the MR556 barrels. Anyone else get keyholing after 10k rounds?

He is referring to a sample size of 1. If he had an inventory of 200 MR556 rifles with the same problem, perhaps it would elicit further attention. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the significant majority of MR barrels (and pretty much any HK barrel for that matter) will likely not be key holing after 10K IF used within that particular weapon's design parameters. If they were running the MR like a belt fed doing back to back beta mag dumps on a select fire lower, I can see the possibility of burning out a barrel prematurely. Without knowing the details as to how it's been used for the last 10K rounds, I'd say take it with a grain of salt.

Some of the stuff in that thread was interesting, just not sure I buy all of it.

Tspeis

swiss_seth

· #3 · Jul 19, 2015

I had keyhoing on my MR556 right after I SBRrd it to 11 inches. I was using Russian Silver bear or whatever that junk is (before I started to reload) I was concerned but other ammo was perfect. Turns out that after pulling some of the Russian ammo's bullets I realized there were horrible variates on the rear of the bullet. (open lead rear of the bullet with lead chunks not smooth.)

I threw that crap out and after using my reloads achieved sub MOA. Thank go I wasn't running suppressed because I am afraid I would've had baffle strikes on my HALO

JNAP94

· #4 · Jul 19, 2015

I have heard of this from another Rental place.. They were sold a 416 with an MR556 barrel in it.. Shot it out in no time.. ?? Who knows, same Lot??

Tspeis

· #5 · Jul 19, 2015

The OP in the thread advised they only use Magtech ammo in their rental guns. However, he did mention in one of his later posts that the only piston gun he's seen hold up during the heavy use on their range has been the HK. I assume he is referring to the select fire 416's. Again, with a sample size of only 1 and not knowing how the MR was used, it's hard to distinguish the difference between the barrel key holing because there's a problem with it (manufacturing defect, change in barrel material, etc...) or because it's been used in a manner it wasn't intended for.

Tspeis

PAGunner

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jul 19, 2015

swiss_seth said:
I had keyhoing on my MR556 right after I SBRrd it to 11 inches. I was using Russian Silver bear or whatever that junk is (before I started to reload) I was concerned but other ammo was perfect. Turns out that after pulling some of the Russian ammo's bullets I realized there were horrible variates on the rear of the bullet. (open lead rear of the bullet with lead chunks not smooth.)

I threw that crap out and after using my reloads achieved sub MOA. Thank go I wasn't running suppressed because I am afraid I would've had baffle strikes on my HALO

That's interesting because after the mag tech dried up, Ron specifically mentioned they use mostly Wolf .223 gold, Russian ammo, albeit supposedly decent stuff and apparently not causing keyholing in other rifles. Maybe someone could ask what ammo was tested in the MR556.

PAGunner

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jul 19, 2015

Tspeis said:
The OP in the thread advised they only use Magtech ammo in their rental guns. However, he did mention in one of his later posts that the only piston gun he's seen hold up during the heavy use on their range has been the HK. I assume he is referring to the select fire 416's. Again, with a sample size of only 1 and not knowing how the MR was used, it's hard to distinguish the difference between the barrel key holing because there's a problem with it (manufacturing defect, change in barrel material, etc...) or because it's been used in a manner it wasn't intended for.

Tspeis

This is true, Ron basically said every other piston AR was garbage but the piston components are holding up on the HKs.

HKGuns

· #8 · Jul 19, 2015 (Edited)

It is BARFCOM for pitty sake, regard EVERYTHING you read there with extreme prejudice. Most "regular" AR barrels are shot out by 10-15K rounds (I'm being generous), somehow his last 100K? Highly doubtful.

The barrel steel and process is the same as the service rifles and WIDELY known to far surpass a regular M4.

Canipe Correspondence - Retiring My 416 - Soldier Systems Daily

Tspeis

· #9 · Jul 19, 2015 (Edited)

HKGuns said:
It is BARFCOM for pitty sake, regard EVERYTHING you read there with extreme prejudice. Most "regular" AR barrels are shot out by 10-15K rounds, somehow his last 100K? Doubtful.

The barrel steel and process is the same as the service rifles and WIDELY known to far surpass a regular M4.

Canipe Correspondence - Retiring My 416 - Soldier Systems Daily

I was not implying the barrel steel or manufacturing process was different between the MR series and select fire 416. I don't care what the barrel is made of. If you treat it like crap long enough, it will fail. I could make an unlined MR barrel hold 1 MOA for 30 years and run a chrome lined 416 barrel into the ground in a week if I used them a certain way. I'm only basing this on the fact that the OP in the thread on arfcom openly stated they do a ton of full auto fire on their range. For all I know, his MR could've been his pet safe queen, but it's not likely for obvious reasons. I think most everyone on here is aware of the 416's merit.

On another note, I'm glad you posted that article. I never get tired of reading it.

Tspeis

HKGuns

· #10 · Jul 19, 2015

I think most everyone on here is aware of the 416's merit.

I think you are being generous.

KBAR04

· #11 · Jul 19, 2015

The "owner" stiffed me/"disappeared" on a deal here...no credibility to me.

Crashmc

· #12 · Jul 19, 2015

A somewhat interesting article , turns out to be the usual BS

" As litigious as the business world is, I am not going to open myself up to some manufacture that doesn't want to hear the truth about their product in MY range. The rounds we put through each weapon system is not what most people will ever put through in a lifetime. I think it would be fair to say if I named one company who's product failed, with something subjective like a gas piston system in a MG range, it's plausible that somebody would feel that I did substantial harm to their product and/or name. "

PAGunner

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 19, 2015

HKGuns said:
It is BARFCOM for pitty sake, regard EVERYTHING you read there with extreme prejudice. Most "regular" AR barrels are shot out by 10-15K rounds (I'm being generous), somehow his last 100K? Highly doubtful.

The barrel steel and process is the same as the service rifles and WIDELY known to far surpass a regular M4.

Canipe Correspondence - Retiring My 416 - Soldier Systems Daily

Ron had nothing but praise for the HK416, we're referring specifically to the MR556 which he reported **** he bed a little under 10k rounds.

Crashmc said:
A somewhat interesting article , turns out to be the usual BS

" As litigious as the business world is, I am not going to open myself up to some manufacture that doesn't want to hear the truth about their product in MY range. The rounds we put through each weapon system is not what most people will ever put through in a lifetime. I think it would be fair to say if I named one company who's product failed, with something subjective like a gas piston system in a MG range, it's plausible that somebody would feel that I did substantial harm to their product and/or name. "

Well, Henderson Defense (Battlefield USA) does what Ron said they do and he is right about getting sued. Coming from someone like him, let's say he said "LWRC rifles experienced significant breakage", believe me it would dramatically harm their sales thus opening him up to a law suit. There are only a handful of piston AR makers out there and even fewer putting out any significant number of rifles.

Crashmc

· #14 · Jul 19, 2015 (Edited)

PAGunner said:
Ron had nothing but praise for the HK416, we're referring specifically to the MR556 which he reported **** he bed a little under 10k rounds.

Well, Henderson Defense (Battlefield USA) does what Ron said they do and he is right about getting sued. Coming from someone like him, let's say he said "LWRC rifles experienced significant breakage", believe me it would dramatically harm their sales thus opening him up to a law suit. There are only a handful of piston AR makers out there and even fewer putting out any significant number of rifles.

Well , let's just say he said this which he did , " We no longer use ANY piston conversions or factory pistons guns with the exception of the HK-416 "knock-off" TDI upper. I purchased a FACTORY brand-new MR556 and it started keyholing after only 10,000 rounds. I was SO pissed because I spent all that money on the gun and it couldn't last 10,000 rounds. I had barrels from before we even opened the range with 1,000's of rounds on them from J&T Distributing (chrome-lined) that didn't keyhole well into the 80,000-100,000 range " .

I purchased a FACTORY brand-new MR556 and it started keyholing after only 10,000 rounds. I was SO pissed because I spent all that money on the gun and it couldn't last 10,000 rounds

F- this clown !

HKGuns

· #15 · Jul 19, 2015 (Edited)

"Ron" whoever he happens to be, is a very typical BARFCOM poster.

Piston rifles suck, if it doesn't have chrome lining it isn't worth $h!t. Tired BS that was hashed around, far too much, OVER 10 years ago. The facts are that the MR is 95+% the 416, so you tell me how he justifies such a difference. If anything, the thick profile of the MR will add to its longevity. "Ron" can't say the 416 sucks or he'd be laughed out of the room because of its service record.

I have a number of other rifles, including an HK91 that perform just dandy without chrome lining. I also don't read a ton of complaints about them wearing out prematurely.

MichaelVain

· #16 · Jul 19, 2015

I'd have to agree with Tspesis. A sample size of 1 with no clarification on what they were using for ammo. If I ran full auto frangible ammo through my MR556, I'm sure I would see fast barrel degradation.

Now, if he ran semi auto only using Wolf Gold 223 (Made In Taiwan), and he started seeing Keyholing at 10k rounds, I would say that his MR556 barrel did not live up to expectations.

Short of more details, I'm not about to give this much weight.

jsbsmarine

· #17 · Jul 19, 2015 (Edited)

Geez, I'd say there are a lot of good valuable FACTS in his posts (yes he adds a lot of opinions into there as well, especially with his disregard for HK due to his past experiences).
I've visited the range and there's no messing around. Their guns go through a LOT of rounds in an extremely short period of time. And they do regular maintenance (unlike other ranges where they just abuse them till the guns are dead). It is interesting to read his feedback on what lasts, what parts break, and how they break. He does praise the HK416, and its much cheaper clone, the TDs. HK's piston systems work. The only reason why he doesn't use factory 416s is obviously the cost factor. He's in the tourism business and if he can get 95% of the experience with a clone at a fraction of the cost, then that is a wise business decision.
The MR556 he had a bad experience with is a sample size of 1; Keep in mind he isn't commenting on the quality of the gun's reliability. Just the quality of the barrel itself. I'm sure some of you folks on here that's been in the NFA rod and gun club for a while and has shot a non chrome lined barrel in full auto can attest to the accelerated wear that occurs with the constant high heat cycles . I've seen it happen with belt fed barrels that aren't stellite lined or chrome lined. AK barrels (like the Yugos) that aren't lined start keyholing as well. They just don't last as long.
The mr556 wasn't built to be a full auto dump whore, but I'd bet my stamp collection that for 99% of MR556 owners it will live up to their expectations just fine.

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diesel1959

· #18 · Jul 19, 2015

KBAR04 said:
The "owner" stiffed me/"disappeared" on a deal here...no credibility to me.

what's his hkpro username?

KBAR04

· #19 · Jul 19, 2015

diesel1959 said:
what's his hkpro username?

PM sent.

AGG

· #20 · Jul 19, 2015

Use quality ammunition--- stop the pieholing!!!

Tony

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