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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys, I may get blasted for this, but I've been wanting an MR762 but can't bring myself to drop the 3.5ish K's on one, not that I can't afford it, I just can't justify it in principle. I have been well impressed with the performance and design of the Sig 716 and am seriously considering building a 417 clone out of a Sig. Anyone seen or done anything like this? Thanks for the input.
 

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By the time you are done building, will you not be in the same price range, give a few hundred? I have seen a few MR762s in the low threes.
 

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Get the MR762, you won't regret it and you'll get the real deal.

Not saying the Sig is bad. I love my 2 Sig556s but it's just not quite the same...
 

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If you understand how the MR762 is built, you would purchase one. Feel free to call me and I'd be happy to discuss what makes the MR762 what it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Hi guys, thanks for the responses. To answer some questions, I'm looking at about $2,000 of total investment to have a Sig set up exactly how I want it. I did see an MR762 sold on GB for $3,000, that is the absolute lowest I've seen one sell for. Now, full disclosure, I'm no tactical operator, I'm not SWAT or even a beat cop, I'm a regular guy that shoots recreationally. I have to ask, what will the extra $1,000-$1,500 get me that I'm not seeing. Yes, I love HK, yes, I looooooove great quality, but after handling both, and seeing that both rifles are capable of accuracy on par with the other, I am having a crazy hard time justifying the delta for the MR. AND that number is only the initial purchase cost, it doesn't even cover sights, spare mags, etc... Joe, thank you for the invite, I may just take you up on that, Im always willing to learn and I truly believe you can offer some great insight into the matter. Thanks again to all of you for the input.

BTW: I'm really not trying to start an X vs. Y deal, I'm really just trying to educate myself (and anyone else that may have similar questions) as best I can. Thanks again, you guys are great!
 

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Don't over look the LWRC R.E.P.R either. SPS alloy self scraping piston system.
I have inspected both rifles in person, and have found the LWRC piston system to be superior to HK's.
 

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I'm not sure it's practical to build a 417 clone out of a SIG 716, depending on how accurate you want to be. You can probably get the MR stock and grip, and maybe have someone engrave the pictogram fire markings, but you are going to be left with the receiver sling attachments on the SIG that the HK doesn't have, plus there is no way to modify the receiver to take HK mags. Also, I doubt the HK's barrel, piston system, and rail handguard are going to be adaptable to the SIG receiver. Even if it were possible, it would probably cost at least as much as just getting a MR762 as to buy a SIG 716 and convert it.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I'm not sure it's practical to build a 417 clone out of a SIG 716, depending on how accurate you want to be. You can probably get the MR stock and grip, and maybe have someone engrave the pictogram fire markings, but you are going to be left with the receiver sling attachments on the SIG that the HK doesn't have, plus there is no way to modify the receiver to take HK mags. Also, I doubt the HK's barrel, piston system, and rail handguard are going to be adaptable to the SIG receiver. Even if it were possible, it would probably cost at least as much as just getting a MR762 as to buy a SIG 716 and convert it.
Hi dwillHK, Thanks for taking the time to respond, and yup, those are all good points, I didn't say it would be a perfect clone! :eek:) But in reality, the fact that it uses an SR25 pattern mag and the integrated QD sling points are features that I actually like about the Sig, it does come with pictograms already engraved so that isn't an issue (not that it matters that much to me anyway), and I don't think I'll mess with the rail, the Sig one would suit my needs just fine, plus even If I did spend the money for the HK rail, I don't think it would line up with the reciever rail anyway as I think the HK rail sits slightly higher. I also wouldn't be messing with the piston system and barrel, the ones installed on the Sig are perfectly servicable and I prefer having the ability to regulate the gas pressure (or turn it off altogether) that the Sig offers. Maybe the term Clone isn't 100% accurate, I guess what I'm really wanting to do is hand pick the features that I like most from both rifles and combine them into one that will #1. Meet (and most likely exceed) my needs for reliability, flexibility and accuracy within what I consider to be a reasonable budget for a rifle of this type, and #2. Be uniquely mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Don't over look the LWRC R.E.P.R either. SPS alloy self scraping piston system.
I have inspected both rifles in person, and have found the LWRC piston system to be superior to HK's.
Hi Polystigma, I did consider building a lower and adding a REPR upper, I really like the side charging feature of the REPR and I know their right up there in performance, the problem goes back to whether or not its worth the cost for my application, the upper alone would cost me what this complete rifle will when it's complete (well, as complete as any pet project ever gets anyway). Thanks for taking the time to contribute.
 

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You only live once, spoil yourself once in a while. Sometimes there is no substitute for true quality. Also keep in mind these top tier rifles hold their value. So reasonable resale is usually not too much of an issue.

41V45 steel alloy match grade cold hammer forged barrel that is nitrocarburized. Good for 20,000 rounds. Nickle Boron coated Bolt and Bolt carrier. Literally wipes clean with a damp cloth. Requires very little lubrication, as it is almost self-lubricating. Pleasure to shoot and clean!

Get the LWRC or HK... IMHO. I went with LWRC and have no regrets. Had I went with the SIG like I had originally planned, I do believe I would not be as pleased.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You only live once, spoil yourself once in a while. Sometimes there is no substitute for true quality. Also keep in mind these top tier rifles hold their value. So reasonable resale is usually not too much of an issue.

41V45 steel alloy match grade cold hammer forged barrel that is nitrocarburized. Good for 20,000 rounds. Nickle Boron coated Bolt and Bolt carrier. Literally wipes clean with a damp cloth. Requires very little lubrication, as it is almost self-lubricating. Pleasure to shoot and clean!

Get the LWRC or HK... IMHO. I went with LWRC and have no regrets. Had I went with the SIG like I had originally planned, I do believe I would not be as pleased.
Hey bro, I'm with ya on quality. And I'm not afraid to drop coin on it, believe me. Actually though, I have to tell you, when I read "spoil yourself once in a while" I actually laughed out loud. Not at you, but at the situation, I spoil myself WAY more often than I shoud! Let me go ahead and qualify that, this rifle will amount to basically a sweet looking plinker, if it sees 200rds in a year it will be a miracle, I have no less than 7 other various true HK rifles (I have a soft spot for the SR9s) in .308 that are, in my opinion, superior in almost every way to any AR platform rifle. That being said, I do want a .308 AR, well, just cuzz. Once again, I' not trying to make this an X vs. Y, I just want ya'll to understand where I'm coming from. Ahhh, to have such first world problems! Lol!!! Thanks again Polystigma.
 

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Face it, you have a disease for which there is no cure, only temporary relief. Black Rifle Disease. So on that note... go ahead and do the SIG. In a couple of years you will get the HK, LWRC, or LMT anyways. Your sick mind will eventually find a way to justify it.
Maybe it will say " I only have one AR .308 platform "... and then "One is none, two is one"... which leads to "yep, better buy another to keep it company".:biggrin:
 

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I dont get it, if you like the sig and all of its features, why dont you just get it and be happy with it instead of trying to make it something its not? its like taking a perfectly good Audi and tossing a Mercedes grille and emblems all over it... its still an Audi inside..
 

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Hi dwillHK, Thanks for taking the time to respond, and yup, those are all good points, I didn't say it would be a perfect clone! :eek:) But in reality, the fact that it uses an SR25 pattern mag and the integrated QD sling points are features that I actually like about the Sig, it does come with pictograms already engraved so that isn't an issue (not that it matters that much to me anyway), and I don't think I'll mess with the rail, the Sig one would suit my needs just fine, plus even If I did spend the money for the HK rail, I don't think it would line up with the reciever rail anyway as I think the HK rail sits slightly higher. I also wouldn't be messing with the piston system and barrel, the ones installed on the Sig are perfectly servicable and I prefer having the ability to regulate the gas pressure (or turn it off altogether) that the Sig offers. Maybe the term Clone isn't 100% accurate, I guess what I'm really wanting to do is hand pick the features that I like most from both rifles and combine them into one that will #1. Meet (and most likely exceed) my needs for reliability, flexibility and accuracy within what I consider to be a reasonable budget for a rifle of this type, and #2. Be uniquely mine.
I'm not really understanding what you want to change on the SIG, then. You aren't going to be using the HK rail, barrel, or gas system. You can't use the HK bolt since it's designed to feed from a different mag, and the carrier probably won't work either since it's designed for the HK gas system and fire control system, as is their buffer. I'm not sure you can use much of the fire control system, so what's left other than the stock, grip, and maybe charging handle (all of which have numerous options other than HK)? It doesn't seem like the any of the HK parts you want to or might be able to use would increase the reliability, flexibility, or accuracy of the SIG like you want. The HK 417/MR762 doesn't seem to have much in the way of parts commonality with other .308 ARs, so trying to drop parts designed for the HK onto another .308 may actually reduce reliability. If it were me, I'd leave the SIG alone, and if you want a MR762, either buy one or trade your SIG in toward one. Just my 2 cents.

Edit: I looked at my SIG 716 and it doesn't have pictograms. It says safe and semi in white on both sides of the receiver. Did SIG change them so that they have HK type bullet pictograms instead of text?
 

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Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
Face it, you have a disease for which there is no cure, only temporary relief. Black Rifle Disease. So on that note... go ahead and do the SIG. In a couple of years you will get the HK, LWRC, or LMT anyways. Your sick mind will eventually find a way to justify it.
Maybe it will say " I only have one AR .308 platform "... and then "One is none, two is one"... which leads to "yep, better buy another to keep it company".:biggrin:
You got that right brother!!!

I dont get it, if you like the sig and all of its features, why dont you just get it and be happy with it instead of trying to make it something its not? its like taking a perfectly good Audi and tossing a Mercedes grille and emblems all over it... its still an Audi inside..
I do like the Sig and many of its features, I do prefer the MR's diopter sights and the length and angle of the MR's grip and the sturdiness of the E1 stock. Honestly I'm having dificulty drawing the parallel of making it something it's not, I thought that was one of the beauties of the AR platform was the ability to reconfigure the rifle in a million different ways to suit the shooter by swapping parts. I do suppose in some small way it could be viewed as a little bit of sacrilege considering that some of those parts will have the HK symbol on them, and they will be on another german manufacturers american made carbine... I guess I'll have to come to terms with that myself; we all have our crosses to bear. That all being said, I'm pretty certain that I won't be the first to install those parts on another brand of rifle.

Oh ya, almost forgot; to jack it up even worse, I think I'm going to borrow the comp from a SCAR-17 (PWS FSC30). I've read some good things about its performance. Shhhhh, dont tell the FN guys.
 

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Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)
It doesn't seem like the any of the HK parts you want to or might be able to use would increase the reliability, flexibility, or accuracy of the SIG like you want.
I never said anything about increasing reliability, flexibility or accuracy of the Sig I just referenced that it would fit my needs for those categories. honestly, this isn't a Hesse or Vulcan that were talking about here, it is already a quality rifle that I'm starting with. I know, I know, debatable, especially since I said that on the HK forum, but obviously it was good enough for you to spring for one, and from your signature line, you have good taste. Which brings me to this, since you have both the Sig 716 and the MR762, could I talk you into doing a head to head comparison for me and the half a dozen or so other guys that are looking for an objective shootout between the two?

You can't use the HK bolt since it's designed to feed from a different mag, and the carrier probably won't work either since it's designed for the HK gas system and fire control system, as is their buffer. I'm not sure you can use much of the fire control system, so what's left other than the stock, grip, and maybe charging handle (all of which have numerous options other than HK)? The HK 417/MR762 doesn't seem to have much in the way of parts commonality with other .308 ARs, so trying to drop parts designed for the HK onto another .308 may actually reduce reliability.
The only internal part I might even consider swapping for HK would be the buffer (after confirming whether or not it would fit) as I think that the added mass of the tungsten filled buffer could assist in dampening the bolt bounce that was seen in the high speed video that was posted a while back.

I looked at my SIG 716 and it doesn't have pictograms. It says safe and semi in white on both sides of the receiver. Did SIG change them so that they have HK type bullet pictograms instead of text?
They must have, the two I looked at in person and the ones I've seen on GB all had pictos on the lowers.
 

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I think it is very hard to beat the price on the Sig 716. Plus you get a 20 round mag and flip up sights. A gun shop I usually buy from was selling the 716 for $1650.00. I did buy a 762 even though I think the price is too much. As far as other platforms go if I were to spend the money again I would get an LMT LM-7.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think it is very hard to beat the price on the Sig 716. Plus you get a 20 round mag and flip up sights. A gun shop I usually buy from was selling the 716 for $1650.00. I did buy a 762 even though I think the price is too much. As far as other platforms go if I were to spend the money again I would get an LMT LM-7.
Thanks Frogman342, thats a pretty good deal on a NIB 716. And yes LMT makes some really nice stuff but I hadn't heard of nor seen the LM-7 until I read your post, so I googled it, and what a beauty! I really dig the monolithic upper design. Thanks for checking in!
 
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