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Discussion Starter #1
This morning we picked up a P30 for Mrs. Kenji and an S&W Performance Center 952 Long Slide (9mm) for me. (I am waiting for the HK45 to come out). We promptly went directly over to the range to try them out.

Now to be fair, we did not give them a thorough cleaning. We ran a swab down the barrels and wiped off as much oil as we could without taking them apart. Also to be fair to the P30 I shot 30 rounds through that before I even picked up the 952.

We were shooting Winchester and Remington UMC factory 115 gr FMJ. We loaded and shot 5 rounds at a time. We were shooting at 10yds in an indoor range. I am a big strong guy (aren’t we all in our own minds) and Mrs. Kenji is about 5’8” and 112lbs. She has an average woman’s hand with long fingers.

With the gun configured as it came from the factory with the medium sides and backstrap it felt comfortable and balanced in both our hands. But when holding the pistol for a while in different positions, I could feel the backstrap move ever so slightly as I adjusted my grip. We think we like this grip better than the USPs, we may not even want to put a Hogue Handall on it. The slide release was easy to operate for both of us. Trigger pull was 5lbs SA. It is easy to rack the slide, which is important to Mrs. Kenji, who sometimes has trouble on some other brands.

The decocking button seems like a good idea. We both shoot right-handed. Mrs. Kenji had no problem hitting the button with either thumb. Hitting the button with my left thumb was ok, but getting my fat right thumb around the cocked hammer to reach the button took some getting used to. Mag release is HK standard.

You notice the sights are a little different, but no better or worse than any other sights in normal light conditions. After being out for 1 hour at an indoor range and then being put back in the box for about 3 hours there was no sign of luminance, even in a completely dark room. Charging the sights with a 60 watt bulb in a reflectorized light fixture for 60 seconds, with the gun held at a slight angle to the bulb (to energize the front sight), with the rear of the gun about 2 inches from the bulb, was enough to make them glow brightly, (more brightly than tritium) BUT the rear sights were noticeably brighter than the front sight, so if you wanted to charge it with a flashlight, you would want to change the front sight more. After 10 minutes the sights were about as bright as tritium, but the difference between the front sight and the rear sights almost made it unusable for a quick sight picture. After 20 minutes it had darkened slightly but was about as bright as the tritium in my watch. Same after 30, 40, 50, and 60 minutes.

Perceived recoil for me is a mute point. As I said I am a big guy - .45 or 9mm not noticeable. Mrs. Kenji feels that the recoil is not bad but more than her 9mm Elite.

So now we get to how it performed. We shot about 130 rounds through it. First the bad – 3 times (1 for me – 2x for Mrs. Kenji) the slide failed to lock open after empty. Someone else on the message board mentioned the same thing. With my grip I would be 99% certain that I was not riding the slide release, and when it happened to Mrs. Kenji I was watching and she was not on it. Again to be fair – we had not thoroughly cleaned the gun before shooting, and we did not try the other magazine. There were 2 failures to extract, one for each of us, but maybe Mrs. Kenji’s was her fault, getting used to the gun.

The gun is reasonable accurate. Please keep in mind that we are not experts. Shooting at a Q target, at 10 yds we draw 2-inch circles on the target. I had a lucky streak and made one big hole with one 5 round group. Taking our time we were consistently making 3-4 inch groups. Remember this is not a target pistol. It comes back on target quickly, and putting a fast group where you want it is easy.

So to summarize – I have concerns about the slide failing to lock open, and the failure to extract. I will report back after the gun is thoroughly cleaned and we shoot it again. If these problems go away, I think that this would make a good carry gun.

Now please do not send me hate mail or death threats for the rest of this paragraph – our other HKs are a 9mm Elite and a .45 Expert. I would not go out and sell any of my other guns, or take out a second mortgage to buy the P30. It is not the best, most innovative gun ever to be produced. If the problems are resolved after cleaning it would make a good carry gun with 15+1 rounds available. If you are not going to carry it, and for the $850 I paid for it, I would add a few hundred dollars more and buy an Expert or and Elite (if you can find it), they are much more of a gun. If you have to have it, I would wait for the prices to come down a bit.

Just a quick blurb on the S&W 952 since I just got it. It has a 6 inch barrel and a trigger pull of 3.5 to 4 lbs. I can consistently put 5 shot groups into a 2-inch circle at 10 yards (for me, I can not believe it myself). We put 150 rounds through it with no failures of any kind. It is one sweet target gun. But it lists for more than twice the price of the P30.

Now it is time to go and clean them.
 

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Thanks for a very honest opinion of the weapon. I still am looking forward to getting mine in
 

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I could feel the backstrap move ever so slightly as I adjusted my grip...
Hello,

To clarify, do you mean that the backstrap was loose and would move around when you applied pressure to it, or did you mean that your hand would move over the backstrap?

Thanks!

AmicusCuriae
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I just wanted to add a few things to my original post:

2 hours after charging the night sights are still glowing, but not as brightly as tritium.

The trigger does feel good. It is a better trigger than the S&W M&P and the Springfield XD. We have been looking at these other ones a lot, so I know what they feel like.

The gun shoots nicer than an S&W M&P, which I had a chance to shoot a week ago, when an S&W rep brought some guns to a store/range for the public to try (at the cost of $1/round). The S&W had 2 failures to extract in 20 rounds. The rep said he had not cleaned it fro 2 weeks.

You might wonder why I bought this gun for $850 when it first came out – Well for 2 reasons. First we have already have a “permit” that will expire. I live in a state where the lawmakers hold a gun owner in the same regard as a child molester. You need a permit for EACH handgun you want to buy. It takes weeks/months to get approval (even if you just got one a couple of months ago)- they send a letter to your employer telling them that you are getting a gun, and the employer has to answer the letter. They send a letter to each person in the house where you live, and they have to respond (even though Mrs. Kenji and I were applying at the same time, they actually sent the letters for her and I in the same envelope). Then your 2 references have to answer questions including several essays. Then your permit is good for 90 days. IF you have GOOD CAUSE, maybe you can get it extended for another 90 days, as long as you act before the first 90 days expire.

Second – I wanted to get a 9mm for Mrs. Kenji to be able to carry, if we went anywhere where the good citizens are allowed to carry. In our state a good law abiding citizen can not carry a firearm. Only the convicted felons and gang bangers on every street corner in the big cities can carry illegal firearms with impunity. Now they want to pass even more gun control laws in our state.
Sorry for the rants.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Hello,

To clarify, do you mean that the backstrap was loose and would move around when you applied pressure to it, or did you mean that your hand would move over the backstrap?

Thanks!

AmicusCuriae
I tried to provide as much information as I could on the gun, so I hope I did not make some things sound too bad. The backstrap has some play up and down. It is very minimal and you really do not notice it all the time. I did not notice it at the range (but then again there were a lot of distractions). I noticed it when I was charging the night sights, and carrying it every 10 minutes from my office to an inner dark room. It is not like it is flopping around. But it is noticeable. I went to look at it again - it looks like it is the play in the roll pin that is holding the grip on (I think). I do not have the equipment to measure it here (you can not use a caliper), but I would say about 0.005".
 

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I tried to provide as much information as I could on the gun, so I hope I did not make some things sound too bad. The backstrap has some play up and down. It is very minimal and you really do not notice it all the time. I did not notice it at the range (but then again there were a lot of distractions). I noticed it when I was charging the night sights, and carrying it every 10 minutes from my office to an inner dark room. It is not like it is flopping around. But it is noticeable. I went to look at it again - it looks like it is the play in the roll pin that is holding the grip on (I think). I do not have the equipment to measure it here (you can not use a caliper), but I would say about 0.005".
Thank you for the clarification as well as the helpful and unbiased range report!

Regards,

AmicusCuriae
 

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Kenji:

Thank you for the report. IMHO that is a completely unacceptable HK failure rate for $850 militray weapon which is supposed to operate in the muck and not need breaking in. I suspect the failure to lock back the slide might be related to weak magazine springs which so many on this forum have experienced. But who knows until you test it further?

I own 3 HKs and want to like the product line more, but I am struggling. Conceptually, I am all ready for the super high end pistol. 2 of my HK's are P7m8s and they work 100%. MY other HK is a P2000sk that now works 100% after I corrected the weak magazine spring problem that was jamming the last round (had to cut down my own replacement springs from Wolff springs made for the USP)

Tweaking high end guns to work offends me. Tweaking a Taurus makes sense, but not HK.

Sound like your S&W runs like mine ... great.
 

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Sending letters to my employer notifying them that Im a gun owner seems to me like some sort of violation of the Privacy Act - 5 U.S.C. § 552a

*Who knows tho, law makers exempt them selves from more than one law*

Get out an vote next November
 

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Kenji,
Thanks for the very detailed unbiased report on the P30. It sounds like you live in NJ :( if so what range do you usually go to?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
To answer a few things in one thread:

I’ll try and post some pics tomorrow, maybe in a new thread.

I agree that this type of gun should not have to be tweaked, but to be fair, let us hold off judgment until I clean it thoroughly and try it again. I hate to have to send it back to HK for weeks. We had to send the Elite back to HK, because it ejected directly back into your face, didn’t matter who was shooting it. We just got it back last weekend, and it seems to be okay after 1 session at the range.

I sent my Sig P220 Match back actually today, for a SECOND time, because 20% of the time it fails to extract the spent cartridge from the chamber. After I got it back the first time, from Sig, it was worse, I have to rack the slide 4-5 times to get the spent cartridge to extract. This is my least favorite gun.

Actually I do not consider the P30 a high-end pistol, this is actually our least expensive center fire, but I guess comparing it to a Taurus ………..

As for sending the letter to my employer, I guess I am a little lucky that a guy that I know at work is a shooter and collector. He already figured how to deal with this in a big company. The first time he applied for a permit, it went to the headquarters. Then it went all over - “John Doe wants to buy a gun, John Doe wants to buy a gun”. It went all over HR, then up to the most executive offices. No one wanted to sign the letter, because it was for "a gun". Anyway now we request that it goes to a specific executive that has the authority to sign it.

Mark71 – Gee how did you guess NJ? Was it the part about having to get a permit for EACH handgun, or was it the part about having to wait weeks/months for said permit (even though the law says 30 days), or was it the part about how the lawmakers despise the gun owners, or maybe it was the part about sending letters to the employer and every family member in the house, or maybe about the references having to write essays, or probably it was the part about a law abiding American citizen NEVER having a chance to carry, even when every felon and illegal alien is carrying. Sorry , got going again.
Folks that live in other states that actually believe in the US Constitution, do not realize how lucky they have it.
As for the range, there are very few places to shoot in NJ (and getting less all the time). Rays is the closest range.
 

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Mark71 – Gee how did you guess NJ?
Easy... You pretty much described this ass-backwards State perfectly. I am behind enemy lines as well and go through the same stuff you do. You forgot to mention that the suits in Trenton are also trying to pass a one gun a month law.

I do alot of my shooting at Rays as there is not many places around like you said but it is turning into a dump. I was there last week and half of the range was broken and hot as hell as there is no AC.

Where did you purchase your P30 from? I am surprised a local shop got them in that quick.
 

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P30

I purchased mine 3 days ago and shot approx.300rns.of FMJ and 50rns.of my carry ammo gold dot 124+p with no malfunctions of any type.It has less recoil than my P2000 and is very accurate. It's been my CCW lately and is very comfortable to carry and concealable.I'm happy with this weapon.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Where did you purchase your P30 from? I am surprised a local shop got them in that quick.
I guess I am allowed to say on this board?

The Silver Bullet in Rockaway. As of noon they have one more P30 sitting in the show case just waiting for someone to come along :)
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I purchased mine 3 days ago and shot approx.300rns.of FMJ and 50rns.of my carry ammo gold dot 124+p with no malfunctions of any type.It has less recoil than my P2000 and is very accurate. It's been my CCW lately and is very comfortable to carry and concealable.I'm happy with this weapon.
Congratulations on yours. I am hoping that that there will be no problems with this after it is cleaned thoroughly.

Can you please tell us what holster you are using? Does it fit in you P2000 holster (It looks to be the same total length)?
 

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Kenji, did your P30 comes with hi-cap mags? Are those allowed for civilians in NJ?
should have, we are restricted to 15 round magazines
 

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Mine was not locking the slide back too but for me it was the slide release. The slide release lever is farther back on the pistol which makes it very easy to ride it when firing the weapon. I had to make a conscious effort to make sure I wasn't riding it.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
I just posted a few pics, including it stripped at:

http://hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?p=506889#post506889

To answer a few more questions:

It came with TWO 15-round mags

I am pretty sure that I was not riding the slide release lever, and I was watching Mrs. Kenji and she was not even near it. It was pretty gunky inside. I hope that the cleaning I gave it will solve those problems.
 
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