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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Admins advise if optics aren't allowed, I know it's been a grey area if allowed.

Anyhow, I'll be graciously taking possession of TG308's MSG90 clone here soon and wanted to get you PSG and MSG clone builders thoughts on optics. I've pretty well narrowed it down to three:

Steiner 3-12x50 military G2 MILDOT
Nightforce C563 SHV 3-10x42mm .25 MOA MOAR Reticle
Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP, MRAD EBR-1 reticle

At this point I'm leaning towards the Steiner, it's a few hundred more used but the glass seems to be worth it in reviews. I'm no experienced long range shooter, but this is the last piece to the puzzle that I want to get right. Thoughts?
 

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This is the scope I was going to use on it. I now have it on another rifle. It is a great long range scope that was actually designed using a wish list put together by several on the guys on snipershide.com

I did mount it on the MSG90 but it is a little challenging to get the eye relief correct due to the short length of the rear portion of the tube. If you are interested I can give you the details on the mount I used to get it to set far enough back on the receiver.

Valdada IOR Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope 35mm Tube 3-18x 42mm Side
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
I forgot about the IOR-Valdada scopes. I need to look in to those too. A forgiving eye relief would be optimal though.



This is the scope I was going to use on it. I now have it on another rifle. It is a great long range scope that was actually designed using a wish list put together by several on the guys on snipershide.com

I did mount it on the MSG90 but it is a little challenging to get the eye relief correct due to the short length of the rear portion of the tube. If you are interested I can give you the details on the mount I used to get it to set far enough back on the receiver.

Valdada IOR Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope 35mm Tube 3-18x 42mm Side
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'm not too concerned on the MSG, but on a k or 18" barrel rifle where barrel length dictates optics, stay under 12" max. I don't plan on doing the slap on the MSG, but rather a pull release like you said.
 

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I see your are leaning towards Steiner. Stop leaning and fall. Worth every penny. I don't own one of their scopes right now. But the spotting scopes and binos are second to none.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I see your are leaning towards Steiner. Stop leaning and fall. Worth every penny. I don't own one of their scopes right now. But the spotting scopes and binos are second to none.

Right on, I think that's where I'll land. I haven't spent over 1,200 on optics and was looking for comfort in the decision I was going towards.
 

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Right on, I think that's where I'll land. I haven't spent over 1,200 on optics and was looking for comfort in the decision I was going towards.
Then don't look at S&B. Every time I do George Washington screams in pain.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That's the truth, I glanced at them, and while I'm sure they're worth every penny; I just can't go that far. It's sad when Steiner and Nightforce are the budget options in your plan HAHHA. I'm just jabbing the big boys, not ready to play with them quite yet. :D.

Then don't look at S&B. Every time I do George Washington screams in pain.
 

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I am using the Steiner 3-12x 56 Military scope on my MSG/PSG1 build. It's an excellent scope, it's German, and made in Germany. 12x is enough to get you comfortably out to the max range of the rifle.

 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just got back from the range and had hell with my current scope and the cocking handle. I think I'm gonna go with an HK21 cocking handle. The scopes I want to use aren't short enough to clear notch and get the right eye relief. How forgiving is the eye relief on that Steiner? What mount are you using and will it clear a 1,200 meter site? What's that below the shell deflector on the the rail? Looks good.

I've decided that I'm going to have to cut the shell deflector off and install a forward assist. A few times it didn't fully close and I had to hand cycle the round to load another, it would have saved some headaches with a large rifle and having to get reset. I had to leave because I was bleeding on everything after cutting my hand on the scope and gun. It was gonna be a sight in session, but kind of turned into a trial run for what my needs will be on this gun.

Here is a more recent photo, the Steiner needs some high rings to clear the charging handle.

 

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I believe that these types of issues with scopes are really the only reason why these rifles are better served as DMR's than sniper rifles. But, then again, the PSG-1 is the most prolific semi auto sniper rifle ever.
 

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The PSG1 or MSG-90 didn't really address the problem as the cocking handle actually goes in front of the scope in the locked open position. So on those rifles you loose bolt hold open with a bigger scope, really a bummer.

Here is the design problem:

1) If you mount a scope low, the charging handle is most likely going to hit the side of the scopes front bell (on any high power modern scope). Also, you pick up the front sight loop (if you have one, obviously the PSG1 does not) in your sight picture.
2) If you go high, you can clear most charging handles at around 1.5" tall rings/mount. With my setup, I use an oversized charging handle HK21 style, and I had to shave one side of it (on the plastic) to clear the scope by about 1mm. Still picking up the front sight in the sight picture at the bottom at 4x.

So, my latest project was to get an ARMS #05 mount, which is a riser that allows see-through for irons. Then, I am going to find some rings that will get me high enough to clear the front sight. The build is still in progress and I will post the completed rifle when it's done.

The forward assist is easily a $1500 cost to get the carrier and assist mechanism. The carrier is nearly impossible to find. It was never intended to be a forward assist, rather it's a quiet close feature so that snipers could close the action of the rifle without making much noise (the noise made by a closing G3 is super loud). I would thing you had some specific problems if things are not closing correctly, it should close and go into battery without any help as long as you allow it to drop the full length.

The Steiner eye relief is excellent.
 

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I prefer the traditional setup, a factory claw and a very short eye relief 1-6X42.

The S&B 'Sniper' (best) or the Zeiss Diavari are your options.

I know all about rails, off-brand mounts, eTc., but nothing is handier than a scope that pops on/off with perfect zero return, correct eye relief for prone shooting, and not getting in the way of the charging handle.

d
 

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Yeah I agree with the claw mount, it's perfect in terms of height and allows the irons, granted you actually have a cheek piece that you can quickly push down and out of the way. I did something fairly unique with my build- it has a picatinny and can still do a claw mount. Depending on what goes down, I might consider going with the claw over the picatinny. I'll keep everyone posted and am hoping the whole thing will be done in a few weeks.



 

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I just got back from the range and had hell with my current scope and the cocking handle. I think I'm gonna go with an HK21 cocking handle. The scopes I want to use aren't short enough to clear notch and get the right eye relief. How forgiving is the eye relief on that Steiner? What mount are you using and will it clear a 1,200 meter site? What's that below the shell deflector on the the rail? Looks good.

I've decided that I'm going to have to cut the shell deflector off and install a forward assist. A few times it didn't fully close and I had to hand cycle the round to load another, it would have saved some headaches with a large rifle and having to get reset. I had to leave because I was bleeding on everything after cutting my hand on the scope and gun. It was gonna be a sight in session, but kind of turned into a trial run for what my needs will be on this gun.
I'm sorry to hear your range session didn't go well. On the later MSG90s they cut the notch in the cocking tube so that the cocking handle locks in a downward position rather than the traditional location. At the time I had my rifle made I did not know about it or I would have had that modification done.

This is the scope that I had mounted. It was short enough so that the cocking handle would lock in front of it and the eye relief was good as you see it mounted in the photos below. Due to the placement of the turrets on the tube of the scope (which you can see is toward the rear of the scope rather than in the middle) I used a cantilever scope mount installed backwards.

The overall length of the scope is 13.5" and it has a 3.5" eye relief.

Valdada IOR Long Range Tactical Rifle Scope 35mm Tube 3-18x 42mm Side
 

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I just looked again and perhaps the cocking handle change was only made on the PSG1A1. I thought it was on the MSG90A1 as well but I am not sure.

Update: 7/2006: The PSG1A1 is new for 2006. The PSG1 series is not discontinued as of this writing, as had been thought, along with the demise of most roller locked guns. There are two primary changes to the PSG1A1

1. Relocation of the Cocking Handle


The standard cocking handle location, when locked rearward, would physically interfere with long (front end) scopes often employed on sniper rifles either blocking the field of view or being physically impossible to be engaged in the locking notch at the rear end of the cocking lever tube. So the cocking lever tubes on A1's are rotated some degrees counter-clockwise as viewed from the rear so that the cocking handle no longer interferes with the sights.
 
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