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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just picked up a used USP .45 on a whim. Didn't research them much before. Only other H&Ks Ive handled are a couple of P7s I own.

It appears I have the "LEM" trigger (no external safety or decocker). So the first shot would in theory be DA, then SA for subsequent shots.

Now, please excuse my ignorance, but after I rack the slide to put a round in the chamber, how do I safely drop the hammer to make the gun DA for safe carrying? I'm obviously missing something, or not understanding this LEM trigger.

Also, the trigger pull seems excessive, especially DA. Only thing I own to compare it to is an old West German made SIG P220, and its trigger feels so much better than the HKs, there's no comparison.
 

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I own the LEM USPc in .40...and I simply "thumb" the hammer (while in a safe direction of course) and gently lower it after trigger engagement--practice with snapcap shells the first couple times....its a simple solution

I agree the trigger takes some getting used-to...there is an option for a "Light LEM" if you do a search a plethora of information is on here about it...

Congrats on the new USP!
 

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You're completely misunderstanding the LEM trigger.

So the first shot would in theory be DA, then SA for subsequent shots.
No. That would be DA/SA. On LEM every pull of the trigger on that gun will be the same weight. It's more similar to a DAO, however the trigger doesn't need to be released all the way forward to reset. That weight itself can be adjusted by swapping springs.

Now, please excuse my ignorance, but after I rack the slide to put a round in the chamber, how do I safely drop the hammer to make the gun DA for safe carrying? I'm obviously missing something, or not understanding this LEM trigger.
You don't need to drop the hammer. It will drop automatically when you release the slide.

Also, the trigger pull seems excessive, especially DA. Only thing I own to compare it to is an old West German made SIG P220, and its trigger feels so much better than the HKs, there's no comparison.
Again, I think you're misunderstanding it. LEM works on a premise that the hammer is always somewhat pre-cocked (there are diagrams that show the mechanism, it is not a traditional setup). That is to dry fire it and experience the actual pull weight you need to rack the slide first. When you pull the trigger that pre-cocking will be gone. At that point you'll have what is probably a 14 lb trigger pull. That's okay because in actual operation of the gun you will never feel that pull because the round will fire, actuating the slide and the hammer will again be pre-cocked. The only time you would actually feel that 14 lb pull is if you pulled the trigger and the round didn't go off and then you pulled the trigger again. The heavy LEM should only be 7-8 lbs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, I understand that that heavy, long first trigger pull (when the hammer is not pre-cocked by the slide) is never actually used? The gun is carried pre-cocked with no safety?
 

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So, I understand that that heavy, long first trigger pull (when the hammer is not pre-cocked by the slide) is never actually used? The gun is carried pre-cocked with no safety?
Not if you follow my 'hammer-drop' method....I had the same concerns you do and way told the same thing as above....

My method works--I do it when I shoot at the range ( train the way you fight!) And in IDPA....
 

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So, I understand that that heavy, long first trigger pull (when the hammer is not pre-cocked by the slide) is never actually used? The gun is carried pre-cocked with no safety?
It's still a long pull. The travel is the same length. Just the majority of the travel itself is light. The gun breaks at the end of the pull at 8 lbs. The point of LEM is to have a consistent trigger pull of the same weight. Don't let the pre-cocking term throw you for a loop. All it is doing is removing some of the tension in the spring, the hammer itself is not cocked back.

My method works--I do it when I shoot at the range ( train the way you fight!) And in IDPA....
There is nothing unsafe about LEM. If you want a true DA/SA pistol, just get a DA/SA pistol. While I appreciate your right to carry your weapon as you see fit, the method you're describing is not how the gun was designed and in my opinion is even more unsafe by the act of pulling a trigger on a live round and thumbing the hammer. You've taken away all the advantage of a LEM at that point anyway with the consistent trigger pull. At that point, again, just get a DA/SA pistol and you will have a 10 lb trigger instead of a 14 lb trigger.
 

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Now, please excuse my ignorance, but after I rack the slide to put a round in the chamber, how do I safely drop the hammer to make the gun DA for safe carrying?
Are you saying that the hammer stays cocked after racking the slide?
 

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LEM (Law Enforcement Modification) Trigger
The Law Enforcement Modification (or LEM for short), is a USP DAO (Double-Action Only) model with a unique trigger mechanism. This mechanism improves the double action trigger performance and reduces the weight of the DAO trigger pull to 7.5–8.5 pounds, uses a stronger hammer spring, and shortens the trigger reset. Aside from the LEM mechanism, it is identical to the USP Variant 7 (DAO) model.

There is no thumbing the hammer, LEM has the hammer resting in the down position at all times except when pulling the trigger. Which in turn is a very safe carry mode. Hence FPB for added safety.
If your hammer rests in the "cocked position" after first shot or racking the slide, you dont have a LEM or DAO
 

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My method works--I do it when I shoot at the range ( train the way you fight!) And in IDPA....
There is nothing unsafe about LEM. If you want a true DA/SA pistol, just get a DA/SA pistol. While I appreciate your right to carry your weapon as you see fit, the method you're describing is not how the gun was designed and in my opinion is even more unsafe by the act of pulling a trigger on a live round and thumbing the hammer. You've taken away all the advantage of a LEM at that point anyway with the consistent trigger pull. At that point, again, just get a DA/SA pistol and you will have a 10 lb trigger instead of a 14 lb trigger.
I agree with this completely. Trying to lower the hammer on an LEM pistol (that isn't spurred I might add) is asking for trouble and foolish in my opinion. If you want a DA/SA pistol then get one. If you want to do something that is likely to eventually lead to an "unfortunate incident" then nobody can stop you. I would ask that you not recommend such actions to people who may not know better than to not listen to you.
 

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Is is possible someone stuck an LEM hammer axle (or whatever it is called) on a V1, leaving a DA/SA pistol with no decocker?
 

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There is nothing unsafe about LEM.
Absolutely. It's no less safe than a revolver. Maybe it would help to think of it as double action only with a very light trigger pull that only has to be let out to the reset point for follow up shots.
 

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LEM - insert full magazine, rack slide to load a round, then holster. Simple. Same trigger every round.

I wouldn't waste my time carrying a weapon that is not loaded.

Sent from my Thunderbolt in the future, using SkyNet
 

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I agree with this completely. Trying to lower the hammer on an LEM pistol (that isn't spurred I might add) is asking for trouble and foolish in my opinion. If you want a DA/SA pistol then get one. If you want to do something that is likely to eventually lead to an "unfortunate incident" then nobody can stop you. I would ask that you not recommend such actions to people who may not know better than to not listen to you.
1) you apperantly missed the "in a safe direction" part...2) it is no less 'safe' than manually decocking a revolver...spurred hammer or not...3) I like the additional safeguard of the heavier trigger weight for carrying; it lessens the likelyhood of an accidental discharge under stress

I simply gave a suggestion if the LEM made the OP nervous...implying I am inept and untrained and/or wreckless is not appreciated and approaching uncalled-for
 

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1) you apperantly missed the "in a safe direction" part...
Certainly you're doing the right thing be ensuring this. However a negligent discharge that doesn't hurt anyone still rattles you. I know, I've done it :(.

2) it is no less 'safe' than manually decocking a revolver...spurred hammer or not...
When would you have to manually decock a revolver though in a normal situation? Only after the hammer has been cocked. Nowhere in the loading or preparing for carrying phase of a revolver do you need to manually cock the hammer and then lower it.

3) I like the additional safeguard of the heavier trigger weight for carrying; it lessens the likelyhood of an accidental discharge under stress
I agree with you completely here, that is why I carry a DA/SA pistol. I don't think anyone here is deliberately trying to insult you or give you a hard time. But what you're choosing to do is not how a LEM trigger was meant to be used. There is a system, DA/SA, that sounds like it does exactly what you want. What's the difference you might say? In terms of safety a DA/SA pistol has a decocker built-in to the firearm that provides a physical block from the hammer striking the firing pin when being lowered. Are decokers 100% reliable? I am sure that there has been one case in history where a poorly maintained damaged gun did go off while being decocked with a decocker. But I have personally never heard of it. I am willing to guarantee you, however, that it is MUCH safer than thumbing down a hammer.

I have no problem with the way you want a gun to function. But you're doing something manually that can be done automatically and removes any risk of doing it manually. Why take that unnecessary risk?
 

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Understand completely what you are saying...my USPf has a decocker...and until I can afford to convert my USPc (which is in the future) this is what my RSO, my gunsmith, and my father all suggested...

The way I understand the mechanics of the system it will not damage the gun in any way to have the hammer lowered for the first round...however I have been unable to completely confirm that with HK....
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Ok, I went to the range today and tried the USP. The LEM trigger definitely takes some getting used to. The trigger pull is the heaviest of all my handguns. I guess that's the point, sort of, seeing how there is no other safety.

That said, the pistol is inherently very accurate and feels great in my hands. After some adjustment to the trigger, I was able to score some very nice groups. I wonder what this gun could do with a lighter trigger.

I've done some reading and found that there is a "match trigger" kit for the USP. I'm tempted to order it.
 

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The trigger pull is the heaviest of all my handguns.
Interesting...the LEM trigger pull, even the "heavy" V2 LEM that I have, seems quite light on my gun. LEMs are generally in the 5 to 8 lb. trigger pull range as far as I know unless the slide has not been cycled or the trigger is being pulled for a second strike. My gun is a P30, however, so your USP might feel quite different. I've never shot one, so I have no idea how it compares.
 

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You just received this USP? What info have you gotten that this is a LEM and not a Variant 7 DAO Pistol. If it is that heavy of a pull, it might not be a LEM.
What Date code is the pistol? Do you have the original box that states it is LEM?
If it a LEM, they do have a "lighter" pull LEM kit. If it is LEM or DAO, then a conversion to a "match trigger" is a complete different setup. But very easy to have done.

"It appears I have the "LEM" trigger (no external safety or decocker). So the first shot would in theory be DA, then SA for subsequent shots."
Now, please excuse my ignorance, but after I rack the slide to put a round in the chamber, how do I safely drop the hammer to make the gun DA for safe carrying? I'm obviously missing something, or not understanding this LEM trigger.
"Also, the trigger pull seems excessive, especially DA. Only thing I own to compare it to is an old West German made SIG P220, and its trigger feels so much better than the HKs, there's no comparison."

Not sure we are on the same page here.
 

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1) you apperantly missed the "in a safe direction" part...2) it is no less 'safe' than manually decocking a revolver...spurred hammer or not...3) I like the additional safeguard of the heavier trigger weight for carrying; it lessens the likelyhood of an accidental discharge under stress

I simply gave a suggestion if the LEM made the OP nervous...implying I am inept and untrained and/or wreckless is not appreciated and approaching uncalled-for
You are right, the dropping of the hammer on a live round is no less safe than manually decocking a revolver. However, it seems you don't understand that neither is safe.
 
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