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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was just looking for a second opinion and to see if the information I have is correct or if I need to have something done to my weapon. The manufacturer of my MP5SD semi-auto (I believe it was an HK94 because it does have correct import markings and is HK origional), he says Quote: "I used win white box to test fire your gun several rounds no problems." Right now, the weapon in question is at my local dealer waiting on the tax stamps to come back. I've test fired it but I've been having a little trouble with it cycling different ammo. I know that these weapons can be "picky" about what ammo they like so I bought a variety to test it with. I've tried a few different weights and manufacturers including Remington UMC 115gr value packs (Yes, the yellow box. I've already heard about the value packs and their deficiency with "Subguns" and just wanted to see if mine was any different... obviously not). I've tried regular Remington 124gr (green white box), American Eagle 124gr, Blazer 124gr, but it only cycles properly on the Winchester NATO 124gr. I've been told by a couple trusted friends and shooters that it should work with the 115gr stuff. I've also been told that "European guns prefer the higher pressure NATO stuff". This isn't the "F" model mind you and I don't think its using any of the "F" parts, its the plain-Jane MP5SD with Action3 roller and semi auto group (there is no cut out in it for the sear trip). This was a fresh build so I'm wondering if it just hasn't been fired enough to "break it in"? Or if I'm just not using the right ammo? Or if the malfunctions may have something to do with the guns set up thus requiring some work to it? Is there something I'd need to check like bolt gap or head spacing? (This should have been done right from the manufacturer. It has the 115 degree locking piece, would the 120 degree piece make a difference? Any information on trouble shooting this would be very helpful.
 

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First off, did it work with Wichester white box, 115 gr 100 rd box that you can get at Walmart? What was said about Winchester nato 124 gr is correct, the gun was made for that round. What was said about, it "should" work with most other 115 gr stuff is also correct, although some of those you mentioned are known for being a bit on the weak side. There's at least one SD builder who still uses a modified locking piece rather than a factory SD locking piece, so that's where I would start. What locking piece did this builder use? What is it marked?
 

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my sd, still waiting on paperwork, was tested with 5 different types of ammo. as per builder-RDTS. the remington UMC did not work well, i was told.
 

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My SD is the same way and does not like some ammo. I will go find the brand of ammo I shoot in a few.
 

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One of my customers had the same issue with an RDTS build.
We thought it was the ammo as well.

It just took a couple of mags to break in.
Seems things just needed to get worked in and maybe some leftover build material needed to get worked out.

Runs fine on quality ammo now.
 

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Most brand new MP5's like the hotter stuff for a few hundred rounds. That said, the 115's should cycle just fine with an SD.
 

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When I chrono's some rounds thru my CA89SD they lost an average of a little over 200 fps! I only shoot 115gr and NEVER Win White Box. Members here have blown up barrels with it! Fiocchi is nice and hot!
 

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to date ran approx. 11 different brands/wgts etc. through various SD's.
Major data compilation.....124 gr most reliable by far. Particularly Dynamit, winchester nato/ranger & Aguilla
With that being said....really had zero issues with any ammo other than WWB. Which was only test fired at the request of the owner. I had to give him the disclaimer act though, because I wasn't going to held accountable if his new SD got a ringed barrel with WWB. WWB didn't fair badly....approx 2 FTE per 30 rounds.
Dj
 

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Something to keep in mind, WWB is known for having abrasive particles in it. I have a friend in the Mass, State Police. He got a bunch of WWB from the SWAT Team. They where using it in factory SDs for practice. The guns started getting louder. The guns were sent to HK for repair. HK would not warranty the guns because they used WWB. If the SD can was a stainless steel Coharie Arms can, I'd think it would be okay. For an all aluminum can, I'd definitely stay away. YMMV.

Scot
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Thanks for all the responses and to those who host HKPRO.COM, I appreciate the TONS of valuable information and experiences posted on here! Today I put 100 more rounds of the Winchester NATO 124 gr marked white box through the MP5SD in question and it functioned flawlessly. It has a factory like barrel and an aluminum Urbach suppressor. I realize that there is a 100 round value pack of 115gr (USA9MMVP) that I have not tried, and I have tried the Winchester NATO box which is Q4318. I wanted to make the distinction between the two. WWB vs. Winchester NATO- stay away from both? A ringed barrel meaning that one bullet got stuck in the barrel and another hit it causing a bulge? Noob here so I'm learning as I go and trying to avoid the bad mistakes. I'm going to try some of the above mentioned ammo brands particularly Fiocchi, Aguilla and Dynamit (isn't Dynamit a Swiss manufacturer?). Any good places to look for those brands? I'm trying to post pictures of the carrier group so bare with me if this doesn't work out right...


 

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Like .223 Rem verses 5.56X45 NATO, it is my understanding that the NATO 9mm is loaded heavier than standard 9X19 Luger ammo. The Winchester White Box is the 100 round bulk pack stuff. The NATO 9mm burns much cleaner than the WWB, which has some abrasive material in it that doesn't burn. At high speed the abrasive material acts as if it is a sand blaster. That can be very hard on the aluminum baffle in the can.

Yes, the "ring in the barrel" would be from a "squib" round that is then hit from behind with the next round. That is definitely bad for a ported SD barrel. Personally, I'd keep putting the NATO stuff through it. It is easy to find and reasonably priced.

Scott
 

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WWB vs. Winchester NATO- stay away from both?
That's a good locking piece. The Winchester 124 gr NATO ammo is obviously made to NATO spec, and thus is hotter, among other things. I've shot thousands of rounds of WWB 115 gr from Walmart through an SD, and many, many more thousands through a variety of HKs without a single issue. There's plenty of internet lore about the WWB 115 gr. Everything negative I've ever read about the WWB 115 gr was based on opinion or he said, she said. I'd love to see some actual research published...by a lab...regarding the various claims (oh, the jacket is so thin it will shave off in the ports, the case is weak and will harm the gun, it's so dirty...). Maybe it's all those things, but I've never seen any proof.
 

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I don't have a good "Micro" lens for my camera but I have proof in three different guns now about what WWB has done to my guns. A ringed barrel in both my SW5 and Task M11-9 slowfire and a badly bulged barrel in my Walther MPL subgun. All squibs. The other two aren't bad enough to not use, but the Walther would be bad ju-ju to attempt to shoot anymore. It appears ready to go at any provocation... like popping one more round off.

No "he said, she said", here... It's gonna cost some Quatloos to R&R all three guns...
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I agree with you Scottinthegrove and I'm going to continue putting the NATO stuff I've been using, or possibly the Winchester Ranger124gr RA9124N. The NATO Q4318 is only about $12 for a box online but add a few bucks for shipping- but its only $13 at the store so I'll stick to that and look for abrasions on the baffles and see how it does. (This is my million dollar idea so no one steal it) I'm going to talk to the manufacturer of the suppressor to see about Nickel plating the baffles, that would add a little extra abrasion resistance but that falls into cost vs. need. It should be simple enough to do. Just mill the parts for a little extra clearance to accommodate for the Ni layer. There's gun shows all the time so I might pick up a few other brands for some tests and what doesn't work in the MP5SD, my Sig will enjoy! Thanks all!
 

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It took you three buggered guns to stop using the ammo! :confused:

Maybe I've been lucky, maybe it's something else.

I don't have a good "Micro" lens for my camera but I have proof in three different guns now about what WWB has done to my guns. A ringed barrel in both my SW5 and Task M11-9 slowfire and a badly bulged barrel in my Walther MPL subgun. All squibs. The other two aren't bad enough to not use, but the Walther would be bad ju-ju to attempt to shoot anymore. It appears ready to go at any provocation... like popping one more round off.

No "he said, she said", here... It's gonna cost some Quatloos to R&R all three guns...
 

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"an aluminum Urbach suppressor" (This is my million dollar idea so no one steal it) I'm going to talk to the manufacturer of the suppressor to see about Nickel plating the baffles, that would add a little extra abrasion resistance but that falls into cost vs. need. It should be simple enough to do. Just mill the parts for a little extra clearance to accommodate for the Ni layer. There's gun shows all the time so I might pick up a few other brands for some tests and what doesn't work in the MP5SD, my Sig will enjoy! Thanks all!
It is my understanding that aluminum can not be plated. Steel can be plated, but not aluminum. Steel is plenty strong compared to aluminum. You could have a stainless blast baffle (the first baffle in the stack that takes the most abuse from whatever is in the powder that leaves the barrel). I could be wrong but I think the Gemtech Raptor series has a SS blast baffle with the rest being aluminum. Good luck with your "million dollar idea".

Scott
 

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It took you three buggered guns to stop using the ammo! :confused:

Maybe I've been lucky, maybe it's something else.
Not really... the first gun buggered I was intentionally using the ammo. My bad. I had heard of problems with the ammo, but nothing bad ever happens to me...

The second gun was buggered by someone NOT familiar with procedure and all he did was recock the bolt and pull the trigger again. No checking the bore, no questioning the soft sounding shot. I didn't discover that one until clean up later that day.

The third just last month was apparently just bad luck. I have a ton of 9mm in the 36 round Swede strippers and apparently still have some of the WWB in there. I'm going through all the 9mm in all the wood cases loaded with those strippers. I really do not need another freakin' WWB incident.

Like I said earlier... the ammo is fine in a semi or a handgun. You hear a muffled pop instead of a bang and you have all the time in the world to check the bore with a rod and ensure that the bore is clear or bang out the bullet wedged in there... but in a subgun? No frakkin' way... not if I can help it.
 

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I had Ralph build me an HK MP5SDA3 and he altered my original locking piece. Thru the years I have shot several types/brands of 9 mike - mike and can't say i've really had any problems with 124 grain. Although there were a few brands of 115 grain rounds that the action didn't seem to operate 100%. Never tried Blazer, was told to stay away. Recently I purchased a new factory locking piece from Adam. Have not notice any difference.

That's Miss February 1968, believe it or not the picture does contain my HK MP5SDA3 can you find it? It's black in color, has a straight 30 round mag installed and has a three shot lower. Oh yeah, it also is/has a true swing down lower!

 

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I had Ralph build me an HK MP5SDA3 and he altered my original locking piece. Thru the years I have shot several types/brands of 9 mike - mike and can't say i've really had any problems with 124 grain. Although there were a few brands of 115 grain rounds that the action didn't seem to operate 100%. Never tried Blazer, was told to stay away. Recently I purchased a new factory locking piece from Adam. Have not notice any difference.

That's Miss February 1968, believe it or not the picture does contain my HK MP5SDA3 can you find it? It's black in color, has a straight 30 round mag installed and has a three shot lower. Oh yeah, it also is/has a true swing down lower!

You can tell by the tan lines it's 1968, but I must say she is well groomed for that era.
 
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