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Discussion Starter #1
Howdy folks:

I am considering buying a new HK Mark 23 but I want to get your input regarding this gun. Are they still imported/manufactured?

If I get a Mark 23, I will get a suppressor for it. Please advise what you feel is the current best suppressor option(s) for this handgun. Should I pay the high bucks for a Knight can or are there newer, better performing cans out there for this gun?

Any one who owns, or has worked with a suppressed Mark 23, please advise that this combo is like in the field.

Any advice you can provide is deeply appreciated!

Thanks!

Chris
 

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Ive posted this a dozen times, but:

I have a Mark 23 with a Gemtech Blackside. I love the combo. It shoots very close to original POI, and is very lightweight. It is comfortable to shoot dry, but add a little artificial environment (water, oil, grease, etc) and it is real nice.

Overall a nice buy, considering how expensive the KAC is.

My .02.

Hkx3
 

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There are a lot of fans of Gemtech but you really should check out Advanced Armament's Evolution. I have shot both companies cans on Mark 23s and AACs is much better. Easier to clean, more reliable, lighter and quieter.
 

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I absolutely hate my Blackside. It's unreliable after 100 rounds on both my Tactical and CT. Maybe it would be more reliable on a Mark 23, but regardless I see no reason why you would buy a louder suppressor simply because it's a little shorter and lighter. That's the only benefit of having a Blackside.

If you really want the total package get the KAC. If you still want a great suppressor but want to save a little money buy the SWR HEMS-II or the AAC Evo-45. You won't be disappointed in either of those 3 cans, but if you get the Blackside and then have the opportunity to use any of the other ones, you'll regret your Blackside purchase. Believe me, talk about buyers remorse. :(
 

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There are a lot of fans of Gemtech but you really should check out Advanced Armament's Evolution. I have shot both companies cans on Mark 23s and AACs is much better. Easier to clean, more reliable, lighter and quieter.
I absolutely hate my Blackside. It's unreliable after 100 rounds on both my Tactical and CT. Maybe it would be more reliable on a Mark 23, but regardless I see no reason why you would buy a louder suppressor simply because it's a little shorter and lighter. That's the only benefit of having a Blackside.

If you really want the total package get the KAC. If you still want a great suppressor but want to save a little money buy the SWR HEMS-II or the AAC Evo-45. You won't be disappointed in either of those 3 cans, but if you get the Blackside and then have the opportunity to use any of the other ones, you'll regret your Blackside purchase. Believe me, talk about buyers remorse. :(
Gal dang you Rex! I was so pleased with my Blackside until I got on the internet and read someone elses opinion! Now I know that my suppressor is loud, unreliable, and overall a piece of sh it!

And to think all this time its been 100% reliable, quiet, light, small, and overall a pleasure to own.

Im glad I got this straight now...

This is not to say anything about the fact that you can have a Mk23 and a Blackside for about what a Knights is worth. lol

Post a pic of yours johnnnyc
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you for the replies so far!

Thank you all for commenting! You have helped me already realize some of the suppressor options available.

I am not loaded with cash by any means but I don't mind saving to buy the very best. I am looking to put together the most topshelf package possible with this handgun. In your opinion, what is the very best option in terms of longevity, reliability, and sound reduction?

Thanks and please keep your comments coming!

Chris
 

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Gal dang you Rex! I was so pleased with my Blackside until I got on the internet and read someone elses opinion! Now I know that my suppressor is loud, unreliable, and overall a piece of sh it!

And to think all this time its been 100% reliable, quiet, light, small, and overall a pleasure to own.

Im glad I got this straight now...

This is not to say anything about the fact that you can have a Mk23 and a Blackside for about what a Knights is worth. lol

Post a pic of yours johnnnyc

Just out of curiosity, have you shot your Blackside next to any of the suppressors I mentioned? See, cuz I have, and all 3 were quieter, and seeing as my Blackside caused both of my guns to start stovepiping and FTE'ing within 100 rounds an none of their pistols did, I'd say that mine is definitely unreliable. Normally I'd chalk it up to something I did, or something wrong with my pistols, only we did this nice little swap where we mixed up guns and cans and the longest one of the others went before a problem was 127 rounds. Now, as soon as I put one of the boostered cans on my pistol, it went back to functioning perfectly with no stoppages. Test pistols were 1 Mark 23 and 2 Tacticals and 1 CT. Yes, we had different pistons for each thread pitch.

I still don't know how you can say it's all that quiet. It was very noticeably louder than any of the other cans when shot side-by-side. Was less noticeable when all were shot with some wire-pulling gel, but it was still louder.

To be perfectly honest, the only thing I can say that I like about this can is the size and the weight. Unfortunately, it still weighs just a little too much to be reliable without a booster. Even more unfortunate is Gemtech denies that this is a problem and in several e-mails they refuse to entertain the idea of a recoil booster. As much responsibility as they would take was admitting that they couldn't ensure reliability on 1911's or Sig's. I did see a guy who had one on a 1911 and it was functioning ok, but he put a very light recoil spring and could not shoot the pistol unsuppressed without swapping out springs.

Here's the most interesting stoppage, I'm still not quite sure how it happened.




You're very lucky that you haven't had any problems with yours. However, I would recommend taking it to the range and shooting only suppressed and see if you can get 500 rounds without a stoppage of any kind. I'd be surprised if it worked out for you.
 

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If you dont mind saving money to dump on this, then Id go Knights and be done with it. Might as well get a Wilcox LAM WITH the more elusive IR system. Then, and only then, do you have the ultimate package.

hkx3

Lets see,

Mk23: $1500-2000
LAM w/IR: $2500
KAC Can: $2000?

I can see the point in that-

Its only money!
 

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If you dont mind saving money to dump on this, then Id go Knights and be done with it. Might as well get a Wilcox LAM WITH the more elusive IR system. Then, and only then, do you have the ultimate package.

hkx3

Lets see,

Mk23: $1500-2000
LAM w/IR: $2500
KAC Can: $2000?

I can see the point in that-

Its only money!
Definitely agree, though I'm not sure where you're finding the KAC can for 2 grand. I think the last time my dealer had one it was $1200 bucks.

If you really want the cool stuff, might as well go all out with the KAC and Wilcox or Insight LAM. I think one of the dudes here was selling his Wilcox setup for a pretty reasonable price.
 

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Not to sound ignorant or uneducated, but why would I truly care if it wouldnt shoot half a case of .45's without some type of stoppage?

Ive always thought suppressing a pistol was a technique used for clandestine operations, where no more than 1-2 or maybe 20 rounds would be fired. Ive never seen anyone wanting to 'burn down' a pistol while being suppressed.

Am I missing something, cause if I am, Im going home tonight to see if I can melt the black off my blackside! lol

Honestly, Ive had real good results with it, but I 'only' shoot about 100-200 rounds per range trip suppressed.

As long as the thing allows me to shoot 50-100 rounds without a problem (which it does), Im happy. Maybe Im just easily amused. Mom and Dad always said a empty shoebox kept me busy for hours. lol

:1900000:
 

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It's a reliability issue. Problem being is that, sure, it usually takes me between 75 and 100 rounds before it starts producing stoppages. But let's say I'm in a hurry when I get home from the range and don't clean it right away. Now what if, before I have a chance to clean the pistol and restore some semblance of reliability, someone breaks into my house and I'm forced to shoot them. What happens if the pistol stovepipes after the first shot and I get my head blown off because I can't follow up quickly enough? I realize it's a very far-fetched scenario, but that doesn't mean it can't happen.

It's a VERY simple fix to ensure reliability, put a booster on it. Even if it isn't the quietest .45 can on the market, big deal, this is the one flaw that has me pulling my hair out. It's not the fact that I probably won't ever need the reliability, but you never know, someday my life might rely on it and I wouldn't want to chance it. If you can't trust the stuff in your hands, what's the point of even owning it.

I'll be honest, it's a range toy, and it does that job ok. I wouldn't trust it beyond that though. Gemtech knows it has reliability issues, and I think what bugs me most is their "oh it's your problem" attitude about it. There's better stuff out there for the money, with companies who have better customer service.
 

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HKx1,
I knew I could unload that Blackside on somebody! Have you shot Marks gun with the AAC on it,just as a comparison? I shot both yours and mine and thought they were all about the same? Thats a M23/Blackside, 45 CT/AAC EVO,and a 45 Tac/Gemtech SOS45. Of course that wasnt many rounds and definitely not scientific but I couldnt tell much if any difference.Mark even remarked that his AAC wasnt as quiet as my old SOS.But I think the two newer ones are better personally.I do have the booster as well on mine.I have never cleaned my Tac since I have had it,but a booster kinda moots that point.
I think that personal experience with all these tells me that they are all good.Unless your ass is on the line I dont think any of them would be a bad choice.You would still need test equipment to tell the difference I think.
 

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OK Johnny, lets think about this.

You are concerned about the reliability of a device that you attach to your pistol, when used in the context of a Home Invasion?

I would think that the LAST thing I want on my pistol is a suppressor if the SHTF.

Think like this...
The jury/opposing counsel will pick apart every little minute detail of the night in question.
Are you sure you want them to say, "the 'victim' of the home invasion 'prepared himself' by placing a "Silencer" on his murder weapon?"

"Objection your honor, the weapon used was not a 'murder weapon'."
"Sustained."
"Jurors please strike the last question, and lets proceed more carefully..."

But now the seed of doubt has been placed!

I think the .45 ACP Slug should do the trick, I wouldnt think you would need to be worried about suppressing your piece.

Ill just suffice it to say that I see my suppressor as only a toy, something to up my shooting enjoyment. Im not anywhere near qualified to argue the durability or reliability of a suppressor, or the appropriate usage of a suppressor in tactical or clandestine operations. I just think they are 'neat'. Ive shot several, and own 2, but that doesnt matter when the rubber hits the road. Same models on same model weapons could behave differently. Agreed?

And Ill never use it against another human. Ill save the tacticool whatnot for the range.

SHTF tools are KISS all the way...

Ill freely admit that Gemtech *may* not be the best. And Im comfortable with that. But for what I do with it, it is 100% perfect, and for anyone not wanting 100% top shelf, "I paid all I possibly could for this" type feelings, it is fine.
 

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Rex, I had you figured out early-on. Anyone who pulls up in a Chevy 1/2 ton, drops the gate to reveal a load of .308, and hands me a f/a Hk21, MUST be out to get me! lol

And no, I havent gotten to try out Mark's AAC. Hoping to soon, he's a busy guy. Hell someone has to work around here! :)

hkx3
 

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Definitely agree, though I'm not sure where you're finding the KAC can for 2 grand. I think the last time my dealer had one it was $1200 bucks.

If you really want the cool stuff, might as well go all out with the KAC and Wilcox or Insight LAM. I think one of the dudes here was selling his Wilcox setup for a pretty reasonable price.
That is me, here the auction link:

http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=82959575
 

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Both of you need to read what I typed:

I already mentioned getting the Wilcox setup, but I said go whole HOG and get the IR enabled unit.

Why get the neutered one without the IR?

Thats whats on Gunbroker. If he had the IR unit, Id already own that auction.
 

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I have a blackside and I am happy with it considering the price. I would however purchase a booster unit if gemtech offered one, I think jonnyc is correct that this is a flaw on gemtechs part. Another compaint I have about my blackside is that the finish on it sucks it is like a gray blue color. I have a brother that has an aac evo and another brother that has an awc. I have also heard the knights can compared to the other three. If I had it to do over again I would purchase the evo or the knights, both are quieter, more reliable and better looking, (they are also heavier).

With that said I think the gemtech is an ok can if:
A: You are on a budget
B: 100% reliability is not an issue
C: You are not after the quietest silencer
 

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If you're willing to wait a bit I think the prices of the KAC suppressor may be coming down soon. Supposedly they are going to be making their products more available to the general public in the coming months.
 
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