Joined
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3,048 Posts
I originally posted this in the Mod section on Dec 23 2011 ..................
on 8-28-10
I sent parts to Aviator Dave , informing what was included & what I wanted built .
51k
“Its on its way to you
Apex parts kit
RCM 308 barrel
Navy SEF lower
PTR 308 reciever
i want it built as a pistol, but will be sending my F1 off this week.”
8-31-10
Sent Dave a PM asking “ Let me know when parts arrive please”
Since I hadn’t heard from him I wanted to make sure he had all info , so I sent him tracking # of package as well as my cell #
9-5-10
7 days after sending parts , I sent Dave a PM wanting to make sure he had received my parts. By now im concerned my parts hadn’t made it to him since I havnt heard back .
So I sent a 2nd msg “ Dave , not trying to rush you, just need to know if my parts made it to you for my 51k build . Contact me ASAP either by PM or email or my cell “.
9-7-10
Dave sent me PM
“Hi Tom, yes I got your parts , sorry I didn’t get back to you , I was out of town “.
9-30-10
I Pmd Dave
“Dave just checking to see whats going on .
Also if you get a chance will you send me SN off my PTR receiver , I lost my copy .
Im getting ready to send off the F1 & want to make sure I have SN correct “
10-1-10
Dave replied
“ sure Ill get that to you tomorrow”
Sometime in OCT of 2010 I sent Dave this email .
“
Just wondering whats going on. Been over a month since i sent you the reciever & parts, i thought you were gonna contact me letting me know what kinda time frame we were talking about. Also, a week or 2 ago i asked you to send me the serial # off the REC & havnt heard from u since ??? & your PM box is full
I kinda thought are communication would be better than this .
If there is some kind of complications preventing you from my build, then i would like to make other arangements. No hard feelings at all.
If you are working on it & just havnt had time to contact me i understand.
But if you do not have time or prefer not to do the build , please let me know, like i say no hard feelings, just ship me my parts back so i can send them to someone else if you dont want to build it.
Once again, this MSG is being sent with the utmost respect & in no way is meant to be darogatory
Thank You
real name
cell #
On 10-26-10
Dave responded to the above email.
“ Samot,
I really apologize .
I totally forgot I talked to you the other day. Things have been crazy around here , Ive been going thru ( personal problems) & been kinda overwhelmed . But things are starting to settle down & I am able to start pushing out work again. Your serial # is xxxxx.
And sorry bout the full inbox , ive been busy with all the other stuff I havnt spent much time on hkpro.
Also if you need to contact me you can reply to this email or my cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx.
I will do much better on the communication , theres no excuse for it . Ive got 4 gun jobs ahead of yours , but the others are not as involved . Im thinking 6 weeks or so but will try to get it out faster . Dave “
We are now 3 months in, to what Dave is calling a 6 week job !!!!
1-13-11
Several months passed with no Communication from Aviator Dave, so I sent dave a PM with an attatchment of another Hkpro members 51k letting him know
“this is what I want my 51k to look like “
Daves response was
“Got It , Thanks “
Even tho several months had passed I tried to give Aviator Dave some slack due to his (personal issues) so I let some more time pass by without contacting dave to see if he would eventually contact me ….. DIDN’T HAPPEN
This is where it REALLY started turning south !
Some time late Jan or early Feb of 2011
I called Dave via Cell
I told him it had been roughly 6 months since I sent him the parts for my 51k build & that I had wanted it done by now. I asked Dave to box up my parts & ship them back to me
That I would not post Negative feedback on him , I JUST WANT MY PARTS BACK so I could send them to someone else !
Dave proceeded to tell me ………… and I Quote …..
” I cannot send your parts back to you because your gun is almost finished , it is hanging in my garage waiting for the paint to dry “ he went on to tell me that the little heaters he had out there didn’t get very warm & made it take longer.
I was at a loss for words .
I told Dave that if its really that far along he might as well finish it . We hung up .
I thought for a bit & called a few people & decided that if he had it that far along he should be able to send me some pics of the gun “hanging in his garage waiting for the paint to dry”
So I called him back …..I asked Dave to send pics of the gun .
Dave proceeded to tell me that he had lied to me & the gun was NOT hanging in his garage & that he didn’t even have the parts kit demilled !!!!
I didn’t know what to say so I ended the conversation.
I don’t know how much time passed before I decided to call him back .
I pleaded with Dave to just send me my stuff back . He now told me he couldn’t because he sent the barrel to IGF to have it cut & threaded .
My hands were in the air.
This guy did not want to send me my parts back to me .
He told me I would have to send him $250 for the barrel work & he would send me my parts back
No Frickin way am I sending this guy money
Once again I was at a loss for words .
This guy has lied to me about the progress, not just lied, but Fabricated a story to make it sound like he was almost done with it , & then admitted lieing to me, & now wanted me to send him money so he would send MY parts back !!!
Needless to say I was livid !!
I hung up the phone on him.
I realize at this point in time I should have posted negative feedback for him & let everyone on Hkpro know about this “ business” transaction !
But for some reason & a nudge or two from people concerned about his recent ( personal problems) I opted to give Aviator Dave another chance to fullfill his end of our arangement.
No way was I gonna send him money after the straight up lies thus so far.
I called Dave again, explaining I understand his trauma from his personal issues & was hoping (since he already sent barrel out to be turned) we could start from a clean slate ! NO LIES NO BS !!!!!
Dave apologized & agreed to be more professional & put all other jobs to the side & focus on Samots 51k.
So as not to leve anything out I found this email from 1-4-11 from Dave
Note the price difference on the barrel work in the email as to what he told me on the phone.
“ Tomas, this was the only emails I had from you , & honestly I didn’t know it was a 51k until talking with you the other day .
(*I sent him parts with a k grip on 8-28-10 & he didn’t “know it was a 51k till 1-4-11.…. The title of every email & PM was 51k*)
I would probably have declined had I realized it was a 51k & not a 51. But the barrel will be back either late this week or next week & I can begin putting it together then if you like.
I don’t know what it was about the recoil rod that got you so upset .If you want me to complete it for you I will have it done by months end .
If not ill ask only for what I had to have the barrel reworked , $150 & I will gladly ship it back to you .I wont even ask for anything to compensate for the work I have done , & it was several hrs of demill work.You will only be disappointed at any pics I send of progress because no matter what they were , it wont look like enuf progress to you
.When I have just 1 of a type of gun to build theres no assembly line type of progress made. Once I start ,I work on them nonstop until they are finished.
I cant do much besides prep the existing parts until after the barrel gets back, especially on a 51k. A 51k build like this requires 21 to 24 hrs of work.
For a 51 I can pre make all the parts according to parts drawings I have made, a 51 k cant be built that way.
Also I did not find a paddle release . I know I told you I had, but that’s only because I have extras & would have just given you one along with the build.
So, its up to you , You CAN EITHER WAIT TILL THE END OF THE MONTH, or if you pay me for what I paid for the barrel work I will send it all back. “
This email was dated Jan 4th 2011
Im typing this Dec 24 2011
To date dave has sent me 3 pictures of progress
Trunnion installed , barrel pressed in trunnion , cocking tube welded WITH NO FRONT HANGER !!!
For the last several months I have not called or Pmd him except to ask for pictures of progress mostly from cell phone
Starting on Aug 26th
I asked if he could send me pics via cell phone
He sent a pic as stated above , trunnion , barrel cocking tube & no front hanger.
On sep 6th 2011
Dave responded to one of my txt msgs
He said
“ he had shot it , & it cycles better “
(Not sure how you shoot a 4in barrel 308 with no front handgaurd.)
It goes on & on & on
I honestly don’t want to sit here & type all the txt msgs out .
I will type the last few tho .
Nov 15th
I sent Dave a txt requesting pics of progress & reminding him the last time I seen any pics was in AUG, & that I have now had to throw my already CLEO signed F1 away because it has expired its 1yr mark .
I got no response !
Dec 16 ….. I txt dave again
Dave “ I would appriciate a phone call TODAY
Would really appriciate pics of my 51k but a phone call will suffice .!
Dave responded with “ Hey Tom Im on a nightmare tech support call with computer morons . Ill get back later.
I txt him again on
Dec 17
Dec 18
Dec 19
On the 19th he replied “YES”
On dec 23 I still hadn’t heard from Dave so I TXT “ still no pics Dave? “
He replied “ I emailed them yesterday “ “I took them with my real camera , not cell phone”
I responded “ I got nothing Dave “ & resent my email to him ( just in case he lost it)
I asked him to “try resending them”
Dave responded with “ I will when I get back into town”
I asked “ when do ya think that will be Dave ? “
Dave didn’t respond.
Same ol story .
This isn’t only the worst business transaction ive had on Hkpro
This is the worst business transaction ive ever had with anyone.
This guy has not been honest throughout the entire project
I want my PTR receiver & all parts returned to me with in 30 days
I will pay for shipping to me & nothing else.
Be a man Dave Atkins .
I have given you several chances.
First it was 6 weeks ……………
Then it was wait till end of January 2011…..
Well guess what .
It will be Jan 2012 in less than 10 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
& you just sent me a TXT saying you’ll have it done by end of Jan 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im not waiting any longer.
You are a year past the 2nd time period you gave me!
You have my PTR reciever
G3 parts kit
SP89 front grip
Navy SEF lower
& 308 barrel .
Let me know what it costs to ship to Indiana !!
I do not recommend ANYONE do ANY kind of business with Aviator Dave.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Since i posted the above post in the Mod section on Dec 23 2011 , I allowed Dave 30 days to send my parts back. At that time i was willing to save dave some face & keep it somewhat under wraps.
Dave has chosen to NOT send my parts back within the time i allowed.
So i am forced to take more drastic action.
Dave Atkins.... I will not accept the the original parts i sent you , due to the fact you have been cutting & welding & cutting back apart & rewelding for going on 2 yrs ......
I sent You a NEW reciever !!!! A NEW barrel , a G3 parts kit , Navy SEF complete lower , & a new SP89 grip .
I want new items returned to me.
NO SMITH is gonna want to take on my 51k build with a bunch of parts youve been molesting for god knows how long !
Those parts are now trash & you now get to keep them !
the only solution to this is for you to send me a
NEW PTR RECIEVER
New barrel
New G3 parts kit
Navy SEF lower
SP89 grip
Once again i do not recommend anyone do buisness with Aviator Dave/ Dave Atkins !
I honestly could have put up with the time it was taking ..... The outlandish lies Dave constantly told me was the deal breaker !
I hate that it has come to this.
But as a customer ...... All i did wrong was send Dave the parts!!
on 8-28-10
I sent parts to Aviator Dave , informing what was included & what I wanted built .
51k
“Its on its way to you
Apex parts kit
RCM 308 barrel
Navy SEF lower
PTR 308 reciever
i want it built as a pistol, but will be sending my F1 off this week.”
8-31-10
Sent Dave a PM asking “ Let me know when parts arrive please”
Since I hadn’t heard from him I wanted to make sure he had all info , so I sent him tracking # of package as well as my cell #
9-5-10
7 days after sending parts , I sent Dave a PM wanting to make sure he had received my parts. By now im concerned my parts hadn’t made it to him since I havnt heard back .
So I sent a 2nd msg “ Dave , not trying to rush you, just need to know if my parts made it to you for my 51k build . Contact me ASAP either by PM or email or my cell “.
9-7-10
Dave sent me PM
“Hi Tom, yes I got your parts , sorry I didn’t get back to you , I was out of town “.
9-30-10
I Pmd Dave
“Dave just checking to see whats going on .
Also if you get a chance will you send me SN off my PTR receiver , I lost my copy .
Im getting ready to send off the F1 & want to make sure I have SN correct “
10-1-10
Dave replied
“ sure Ill get that to you tomorrow”
Sometime in OCT of 2010 I sent Dave this email .
“
Just wondering whats going on. Been over a month since i sent you the reciever & parts, i thought you were gonna contact me letting me know what kinda time frame we were talking about. Also, a week or 2 ago i asked you to send me the serial # off the REC & havnt heard from u since ??? & your PM box is full
I kinda thought are communication would be better than this .
If there is some kind of complications preventing you from my build, then i would like to make other arangements. No hard feelings at all.
If you are working on it & just havnt had time to contact me i understand.
But if you do not have time or prefer not to do the build , please let me know, like i say no hard feelings, just ship me my parts back so i can send them to someone else if you dont want to build it.
Once again, this MSG is being sent with the utmost respect & in no way is meant to be darogatory
Thank You
real name
cell #
On 10-26-10
Dave responded to the above email.
“ Samot,
I really apologize .
I totally forgot I talked to you the other day. Things have been crazy around here , Ive been going thru ( personal problems) & been kinda overwhelmed . But things are starting to settle down & I am able to start pushing out work again. Your serial # is xxxxx.
And sorry bout the full inbox , ive been busy with all the other stuff I havnt spent much time on hkpro.
Also if you need to contact me you can reply to this email or my cell is xxx-xxx-xxxx.
I will do much better on the communication , theres no excuse for it . Ive got 4 gun jobs ahead of yours , but the others are not as involved . Im thinking 6 weeks or so but will try to get it out faster . Dave “
We are now 3 months in, to what Dave is calling a 6 week job !!!!
1-13-11
Several months passed with no Communication from Aviator Dave, so I sent dave a PM with an attatchment of another Hkpro members 51k letting him know
“this is what I want my 51k to look like “
Daves response was
“Got It , Thanks “
Even tho several months had passed I tried to give Aviator Dave some slack due to his (personal issues) so I let some more time pass by without contacting dave to see if he would eventually contact me ….. DIDN’T HAPPEN
This is where it REALLY started turning south !
Some time late Jan or early Feb of 2011
I called Dave via Cell
I told him it had been roughly 6 months since I sent him the parts for my 51k build & that I had wanted it done by now. I asked Dave to box up my parts & ship them back to me
That I would not post Negative feedback on him , I JUST WANT MY PARTS BACK so I could send them to someone else !
Dave proceeded to tell me ………… and I Quote …..
” I cannot send your parts back to you because your gun is almost finished , it is hanging in my garage waiting for the paint to dry “ he went on to tell me that the little heaters he had out there didn’t get very warm & made it take longer.
I was at a loss for words .
I told Dave that if its really that far along he might as well finish it . We hung up .
I thought for a bit & called a few people & decided that if he had it that far along he should be able to send me some pics of the gun “hanging in his garage waiting for the paint to dry”
So I called him back …..I asked Dave to send pics of the gun .
Dave proceeded to tell me that he had lied to me & the gun was NOT hanging in his garage & that he didn’t even have the parts kit demilled !!!!
I didn’t know what to say so I ended the conversation.
I don’t know how much time passed before I decided to call him back .
I pleaded with Dave to just send me my stuff back . He now told me he couldn’t because he sent the barrel to IGF to have it cut & threaded .
My hands were in the air.
This guy did not want to send me my parts back to me .
He told me I would have to send him $250 for the barrel work & he would send me my parts back
No Frickin way am I sending this guy money
Once again I was at a loss for words .
This guy has lied to me about the progress, not just lied, but Fabricated a story to make it sound like he was almost done with it , & then admitted lieing to me, & now wanted me to send him money so he would send MY parts back !!!
Needless to say I was livid !!
I hung up the phone on him.
I realize at this point in time I should have posted negative feedback for him & let everyone on Hkpro know about this “ business” transaction !
But for some reason & a nudge or two from people concerned about his recent ( personal problems) I opted to give Aviator Dave another chance to fullfill his end of our arangement.
No way was I gonna send him money after the straight up lies thus so far.
I called Dave again, explaining I understand his trauma from his personal issues & was hoping (since he already sent barrel out to be turned) we could start from a clean slate ! NO LIES NO BS !!!!!
Dave apologized & agreed to be more professional & put all other jobs to the side & focus on Samots 51k.
So as not to leve anything out I found this email from 1-4-11 from Dave
Note the price difference on the barrel work in the email as to what he told me on the phone.
“ Tomas, this was the only emails I had from you , & honestly I didn’t know it was a 51k until talking with you the other day .
(*I sent him parts with a k grip on 8-28-10 & he didn’t “know it was a 51k till 1-4-11.…. The title of every email & PM was 51k*)
I would probably have declined had I realized it was a 51k & not a 51. But the barrel will be back either late this week or next week & I can begin putting it together then if you like.
I don’t know what it was about the recoil rod that got you so upset .If you want me to complete it for you I will have it done by months end .
If not ill ask only for what I had to have the barrel reworked , $150 & I will gladly ship it back to you .I wont even ask for anything to compensate for the work I have done , & it was several hrs of demill work.You will only be disappointed at any pics I send of progress because no matter what they were , it wont look like enuf progress to you
.When I have just 1 of a type of gun to build theres no assembly line type of progress made. Once I start ,I work on them nonstop until they are finished.
I cant do much besides prep the existing parts until after the barrel gets back, especially on a 51k. A 51k build like this requires 21 to 24 hrs of work.
For a 51 I can pre make all the parts according to parts drawings I have made, a 51 k cant be built that way.
Also I did not find a paddle release . I know I told you I had, but that’s only because I have extras & would have just given you one along with the build.
So, its up to you , You CAN EITHER WAIT TILL THE END OF THE MONTH, or if you pay me for what I paid for the barrel work I will send it all back. “
This email was dated Jan 4th 2011
Im typing this Dec 24 2011
To date dave has sent me 3 pictures of progress
Trunnion installed , barrel pressed in trunnion , cocking tube welded WITH NO FRONT HANGER !!!
For the last several months I have not called or Pmd him except to ask for pictures of progress mostly from cell phone
Starting on Aug 26th
I asked if he could send me pics via cell phone
He sent a pic as stated above , trunnion , barrel cocking tube & no front hanger.
On sep 6th 2011
Dave responded to one of my txt msgs
He said
“ he had shot it , & it cycles better “
(Not sure how you shoot a 4in barrel 308 with no front handgaurd.)
It goes on & on & on
I honestly don’t want to sit here & type all the txt msgs out .
I will type the last few tho .
Nov 15th
I sent Dave a txt requesting pics of progress & reminding him the last time I seen any pics was in AUG, & that I have now had to throw my already CLEO signed F1 away because it has expired its 1yr mark .
I got no response !
Dec 16 ….. I txt dave again
Dave “ I would appriciate a phone call TODAY
Would really appriciate pics of my 51k but a phone call will suffice .!
Dave responded with “ Hey Tom Im on a nightmare tech support call with computer morons . Ill get back later.
I txt him again on
Dec 17
Dec 18
Dec 19
On the 19th he replied “YES”
On dec 23 I still hadn’t heard from Dave so I TXT “ still no pics Dave? “
He replied “ I emailed them yesterday “ “I took them with my real camera , not cell phone”
I responded “ I got nothing Dave “ & resent my email to him ( just in case he lost it)
I asked him to “try resending them”
Dave responded with “ I will when I get back into town”
I asked “ when do ya think that will be Dave ? “
Dave didn’t respond.
Same ol story .
This isn’t only the worst business transaction ive had on Hkpro
This is the worst business transaction ive ever had with anyone.
This guy has not been honest throughout the entire project
I want my PTR receiver & all parts returned to me with in 30 days
I will pay for shipping to me & nothing else.
Be a man Dave Atkins .
I have given you several chances.
First it was 6 weeks ……………
Then it was wait till end of January 2011…..
Well guess what .
It will be Jan 2012 in less than 10 days !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
& you just sent me a TXT saying you’ll have it done by end of Jan 2012 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Im not waiting any longer.
You are a year past the 2nd time period you gave me!
You have my PTR reciever
G3 parts kit
SP89 front grip
Navy SEF lower
& 308 barrel .
Let me know what it costs to ship to Indiana !!
I do not recommend ANYONE do ANY kind of business with Aviator Dave.
..........................................................................................................................................................................................................
Since i posted the above post in the Mod section on Dec 23 2011 , I allowed Dave 30 days to send my parts back. At that time i was willing to save dave some face & keep it somewhat under wraps.
Dave has chosen to NOT send my parts back within the time i allowed.
So i am forced to take more drastic action.
Dave Atkins.... I will not accept the the original parts i sent you , due to the fact you have been cutting & welding & cutting back apart & rewelding for going on 2 yrs ......
I sent You a NEW reciever !!!! A NEW barrel , a G3 parts kit , Navy SEF complete lower , & a new SP89 grip .
I want new items returned to me.
NO SMITH is gonna want to take on my 51k build with a bunch of parts youve been molesting for god knows how long !
Those parts are now trash & you now get to keep them !
the only solution to this is for you to send me a
NEW PTR RECIEVER
New barrel
New G3 parts kit
Navy SEF lower
SP89 grip
Once again i do not recommend anyone do buisness with Aviator Dave/ Dave Atkins !
I honestly could have put up with the time it was taking ..... The outlandish lies Dave constantly told me was the deal breaker !
I hate that it has come to this.
But as a customer ...... All i did wrong was send Dave the parts!!
