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Discussion Starter #1
Hey all.
Here's my situation. I just got hired by an armored car company, and our issued sidearm is the HK P2000 v2 LEM in 9mm. Sweet little pistol. This is great, but it's also a problem. The problem is, we are not allowed to own P2000s as civilians in Canada. Stupid short barreled pistol regulations that make no sense, but then again, gun control never does. Back to the point. I'm trying to get my hands on something that would be as close as possible to the issued sidearm for training purposes. I was thinking a USP with a LEM trigger would be close enough to retain muscle memory. One more problem: the HK importer, R. Nicholls, wont sell pistols equipped with the LEM trigger to civilians, wich leaves me pretty short on options.

I could:
A. Buy a USP9 LEM from a dealer in the US or elsewhere and have it imported into Canada.
B. Buy a UPS9 here, and install a LEM conversion kit.

First, would a USP v2 with LEM be the same as a P2000 v2 LEM ?

Second, would installing the LEM conversion kit nullify my warranty on my pistol?

Also, anyone of you guys know of a dealer who has a USP9 LEM in a variant(v2?) that would be the same as my issued sidearm?

Thanks for the help!

Marc
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Well at least i can own a semi M2 with belts as long as i can afford to make em...if i can find a semi ma deuce :(
 

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Welcome Canuck :D

I know how you feel about our stupid laws....

Luckily tho, your talking to a guy that owns a lot of stuff that is perfectly legal to own in Canada, but unavailable for us to buy :p


As far as installing the kit, if you get a certified HK amouror to do it, it will not Void the warrenty, OR if you do it by yourself, and not screw it up. I've never had to send something to HK for repair, im not sure if it would cause any trouble to have the LEM if its just the importer thats being lame with the rules.

If you DO install the kit and it works fine, HK will still honour the warrenty (how would they know, even if they did its generally a moot point... they dont care as long as its done right).



The best recomendation i can get for you, is to wait till HK-usa gets more of the LEM triggers in, and try to see if they will install the LEM for you. I know generally its a no-no to get parts transfered from the US to Canada, but i think for warrenty and/or service you are still able to get them transfered back and forth no problem.

If you arn't able to get HKusa to do the install for the gun + export it back here, then try to find a certified armouror to put it in.... From the jumble of laws for the exports, it seems to be stated, that any firearms part under 100 dollars is exempt from the export limitations. I think the price for the LEM was 50 dollars from CDNN http://www.cdnninvestments.com/hklemconewfa.html (they are out i think still) so it should be fine to get it into Canada.

All you need is someone you know in the US willing to ship it up to you!

If you have any more questions, dont hesitate to shoot me an IM and i'll give you some of my experiances with doing the transfers!

Hopefully BigBore will show up sometime and give you a rundown on the LEM installs, i think theres a Tacked topic about it somewhere here.
 

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I havn't shot a 2000 so not much help there but I'm wondering if your employer can get the civilian legal model you want and then resell it to you? I don't know Canadian law. Just thinking out loud.
Arthur
buy the way, CDNN is great to do business with if you go that route. Check out their prices on mags too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Arthur: That would be a no go. The P2000 is classed as prohibited because it has a barrel of less than 106mm. The USP is good to go. I don't think my employer's legal department would enjoy it if he tried selling me a firearm.
 

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If all you are really worried about is muscle memory, and the feel of the pistol is Airsoft a option for you? From what I am told they are about the same size as the real thing, and feel like the real thing also. Plus much cheaper, and safer to train, and practice with.

With that said though, I must admit that I don't have one myself but I know others who do and like them for training. But I don't even know if that is a option for you good luck though.
 

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That all seems kind of screwy to me. If your already allowed to own a P2000 and that counts as a restricted article then why aren't you exempt from the laws surrounding other pistols as well? Oh well, I know nothing about Canadian gun laws but I imagine they make even less sense then the ones here in the states.

Coming from a person who sells and repairs airsoft guns (I work in a paintball shop), I can tell you they are mostly junk. In my expirience, they are more akin to a pellet pistol than a real handgun. The blowback is...how should I say...unimpressive. They also break often and parts are hard to obtain and install as they are made overseas. There is very little "principal of assembly" with these airsoft guns because most are assembled on a jig in the factory, making some impossible to take apart without springs flying everywhere. Save your money, buy the real thing.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
HK 4 Life: The company owns the P2000s. Apparently, they are allowed to own prohibited firearms, but us lowly citizens are not. Something else that's funny, even though they hand us prohibited firearms, they still won't give us regular cap mags, just 10 rounders(legal limit in Canada).

sfguard: I'd like to become more accustomed to the LEM trigger. We only fired 600 rounds during qualification. Normally wE'd be able to rent range time, for 10 $, and shoot 100 rounds, but because we are transitionning from revolvers and hiring alot of people, the ranges are always in operation for training purposes, so that won't be possible for a long time to come. Hence that,s why i want a pistol as close as possible to our P2000s with the LEM trigger.

AGG: Yeah, i kinda want the LEM trigger to practice with it.


Marc
 

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Wow that is strange. So you are allowed to carry an "evil" and "illegal" P2000 but you still must carry "legal" 10rnd. mags and not "evil" "illegal" high cap mag to match the gun? Furthurmore, you are the one your firm is entrusting the P2000 to and in the eyes of the law you still haven't met the credentials to obtain another alike handgun? Sounds like your laws are even more screwy than ours. Here, at least, if you are allowed to own a handgun you are generally not restricted to what type you can own. Common sense would dictate if you are trustworthy and responsible with one pistol you would be nothing but the same with any other. Alas, it seems the laws in both our countries were not written with much common sense in mind.

More and more I believe these arbitrary laws were made by lawyer types who sit behind a desk all day and do not know the first thing about firearms.
 

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Wait until Elections?

Wait until our elections and 18 months. Wrong group elected and worry. We may be Canada or the dream Europe!!
 

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Our laws are VERY strange. Every single AR15 is restricted, even the 20" versions, and ALL the HK roller locked guns (except the SL6/7 and others) are ILLEGAL to own, BUT

we can have the Sig 550 assault rifle, Benelli M4 super 90, and other scarry evil guns, with only magazine capacity limits....


I think its VERY stupid that you have a department firearm, yet your have non department magazines... (IE, limeted). Just weird i suppose, thats why i like .45, becuase just about every gun has either no limet (they have 10 or less rounds to begin with) or they have a very small plug (IE, mark23 limeted from 12 to 10)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I can own a .500S&W revolver with an 8in barrel with a muzzle energy of like 2000ft/lbs, but oh my god noes, the earth's crust would shatter and magma would erupt everywhere putting an end to civilization should i acquire a 25 or 32acp pistol with a 2.5in barrel. Go figure. As i said, gun laws never make sense.

So, about that USP, anyone knows a dealer/FFL who has a USPf 9mm LEM in stock?
 

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If you can't find a USP9mm in LEM why not try to get one in DA/SA and give that a spin. It would be very close to a LEM, plus you could always add the LEM later... Just an idea?

Anyway welcome to the fourm and I hope you can get things worked out for you!! TJ
 

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What about those "BlueGun" training guns? You know, those plastic ones that cops sometimes train with. They are supposedly spot on as far as size and specs with the real guns. It wouldnt give you trigger practice of course, but you could still get a feel for the pistol and get used to handling it. A quick google search of BlueGuns or RedGuns should bring up some results. I'm pretty sure theres a P2000 model.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I believe the blue guns and red guns would fall under the replica category, wich are prohibited, for some dumb reason.
 

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Nobody answered his question...
Is the USP LEM trigger close in feel to the P2000 LEM?
He is looking to own a legal gun he will be able to take to the range and become accustomed to the trigger so he will be able to do OK in a SHTF situation while on the job... Chime in if you have or have expereince with a LEM USP and a LEM P2000. Telling him Canada is gay doesn't really help... suggesting replica this and relica that is not very helpful either. I would also like to know if a reputable member can debrief with regards to LEM discrepencies if there are any.
 
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