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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi folks-

*** EDITED: Some Mark 23 stuff added to P. 2 ***

I'm new to the forums but have been enjoying them since I stumbled upon the site a week or so ago.

As I mentioned in my first post, I'm a sworn LEO and I was a CIII years ago. I was also an adjunct instructor at HK ITD and HK Defense in the Tac Med program. In the course of teaching there I took many of the Tac Schools as well as the MP5 Operator and Instructor Schools. I got to know the rest of the staff well which has made for some fantastic, long standing contacts.

Back in the day when HK factory original pre-86DS guns were very cheap I purchased the three in the photos below. Being pre-86DS guns I can keep them the rest of my life. Hopefully one of my kids will be a CIII someday so that the guns can stay in the family. When I bought them no one that I know of anticipated that pre-86 DS guns would be bringing near the money that they do today. All the sweeter!

My MP5 family photo...

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Individually...

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This is the SD. It came with the fixed stock which I just left on. I have an A3 stock, another new HK aluminium can and the rare KAC Navy Can (sitting atop it's box in the photos) which was made by KAC for HK in the late 90s. I purchased this one directly from KAC who I did business with at the time. They serial numbered it to my SD. I've kept the can NIB. I hardly ever shoot the SD being a pain to clean and being that a lot of gas gets in my face when doing some drills such as bounding overwatch, etc.

IMG_20160904_240049032.jpg

This is my main shooter. It's a standard MP5A3 which has essentially what amounts to an F conversion which was done by HK when I was there. It does not have the sling attachments on both sides like a factory F but is otherwise an F. I have one can for it but generally shoot it unsuppressed. I've shot well over 10K rounds through it without a hitch other than one instance of the locking roller holder breaking. Other than that just the usual stuff like changing the extractor spring, etc. Incredibly the standard locking rollers are still correct for the gun. This gives me an idea of how many times that you have to shoot these things to require + size rollers.

IMG_20160904_240044154.jpg

This is my prize of the bunch - a factory original K. There are very, very few factory original K pre-sample guns in the US. I've heard between 10 - 40. This was the most expensive one- $4K. That seemed like crazy money at the time when an MP5A3 and SD DS guns were going for about $1900 and $3000 respectively. I'm SO glad that I bought it. I turned it down at first. This one was carried as evidenced by some wear on the sling attachment but looks like it was hardly every fired. Other than the slight wear on the sling attachment it looks essentially new both internally and externally.

I have many different original trigger groups and all manner of HK accessories for these guns. I've just kept them in the configuration that I purchased them in. The only exception being my shooter F gun which, in addition to the F conversion also has an extended selector lever - a must for really shooting these things.

I also have a MK 23 also with an original KAC can serial numbered to the gun, an HK91 and an SP5K.

I took the two day HK Armorer's School at HK HQ in Ashburn, VA in March. It was fantastic. Two full days of learning tons about every aspect of the MP5 taught by the man who most likely knows more about the MP5 than anyone in the US - Bob Schultz, Director of Training.

Of course, we were treated to the Grey room.

A couple of neat toys from there...

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Cut away MP5

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Transparent MP7

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A wall that we'd all love to have....
 

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In the world of HK sub guns, that's the trifecta. This may be sacralige, but I would be torn trying to decide whether to keep those or put that money into transferables. Just curious, your history sounds familiar. I presume you have posted your background elsewhere?
 

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The Librarian
MP5-N and HK23E-K
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Didn't realize there was that few DS MP5K around. I actually know someone who has one. Also nice to hear we have another former HK employee joining the forum. Welcome!

Pretty cool collection!
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
In the world of HK sub guns, that's the trifecta. This may be sacralige, but I would be torn trying to decide whether to keep those or put that money into transferables. Just curious, your history sounds familiar. I presume you have posted your background elsewhere?
No, this is the only firearms forum that I've posted to - at least that I can recall.

I like the factory original deal, guns that HK will service and cover.

I thought about transferables years ago but the idea of a converted gun just didn't work for me. I recall years back when I purchased some Colt M16s that the dealer had some Ballistics MP5s with all original parts, receiver guns which looked perfect for $3000. I passed. SO dumb!!! When I think of what that stuff would be worth today it makes me sick. Of course, any of us who've been in this for decades could say the same thing.

Hoping that one of the kids becomes a CIII someday so that I can keep these in the family.

I'm amazed at what the DS guns bring these days.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Didn't realize there was that few DS MP5K around. I actually know someone who has one. Also nice to hear we have another former HK employee joining the forum. Welcome!

Pretty cool collection!
Indeed, very, very few originals. There are some guns which are described as DS Ks but are actually converted DS Ks which were made as standard MP5s. Despite that the K was around well prior to 1986 for some reason they were apparently just beginning to be sold to US LE in 86 just before the ban. The original, papered as K guns by HK weapons usually have 4 digit serial numbers with no letters. There may be other serial number types but the three that I've seen all had 4 digit numbers.

My estimate of 10-40 is based on my discussions over the years with several of the big CIII guys who know the market.
 

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The Librarian
MP5-N and HK23E-K
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Pretty interesting!
 

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No, this is the only firearms forum that I've posted to - at least that I can recall.

I like the factory original deal, guns that HK will service and cover.

I thought about transferables years ago but the idea of a converted gun just didn't work for me.

Hoping that one of the kids becomes a CIII someday so that I can keep these in the family.

I'm amazed at what the DS guns bring these days.
I completely understand the factory pure approach, but figured a transferable would be a lot less complicated for the kids.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
I completely understand the factory pure approach, but figured a transferable would be a lot less complicated for the kids.
That's for sure!!

I have many other factory original transferable guns which should be trouble free for them esp with the trust.

I figured that if they were interested enough in the pre-86DS guns (I have some others besides the HKs) that one of them would become a CIII someday. If not, these will sell for big $ buy the time that I check out - hopefully a good while from now :)

(Edited) I should add, while being a CIII was great fun and I met some great folks it was a bit of a pain administratively. I actually ended up keeping very few of the guns which went through by business. I figured that being able to keep a few Pre 86 DS guns was one of the benefits that I should take advantage of. Also, being a purist I really do like 100% factory original guns. The one HK DS gun that I really regret never buying was a 53. I love those guns and could have bought one cheap. Oh well...
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Fascinating story. Really neat that you were able to get into three iconic HK subguns, double push pins and all.
Thanks! I enjoy owning these more than any of my other guns. Right place at the right time. I think that the SD was one of the DOE guns but I'm not sure. I'm so grateful for the K. To think that I turned it down when first offered...
 

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Thanks for sharing the photos and the info! Maybe we can get Straightgrain to open an HK Fishing Stories section where we can all post our stories about the ones that got away.
 

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Raufus, will you adopt me if I get my CIII? I'll let the others shoot them, I promise!;-)

That is an amazing set of triplets.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
Thanks for sharing the photos and the info! Maybe we can get Straightgrain to open an HK Fishing Stories section where we can all post our stories about the ones that got away.
Tanks so much to all of you for the warm welcome to the forum.

Man would the got away section be painful!!

Many here no doubt were into this stuff pre-86 when is it was dirt cheap.

I just missed the boat on that however I did convince my father to buy a Colt Commando in the early 80s for about $500 - which we still have.

I can't complain too much though. I started buying CIII stuff in the early 90s when the prices were about 1/6 of today's prices on average. Stiil, they were up from pre 86 of course. It takes some real $$ to get into this stuff today. Bummer for the younger guys who couldn't buy years ago.

One more toy to add to the photo gallery....

I purchased an HK Mark 23 in 97. I've kept it NIB as a safe queen ever since...

IMG_20160904_200806730.jpg

I wish that I had bought it a few months earlier and received one of the Mark 23 marked guns.

The cool thing is the can. One of my buddies, who was the C III who got me the can, knew the guys at KAC at the time. They serial numbered the can to my gun. Further, this is one of the early KAC cans which were being made for the govt. Thus, my can has the NSN and other govt issue markings. Further, it's been kept new in the wrap as a safe queen ever since. I've never even opened the sealed bag. Can't imaging that there are too many like that floating around today - though I don't really know as I have not followed them.

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For kicks here is the MK 23 from the Grey Room with military slide markings and the military LAM...

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My can has the same markings as the Grey Room can except that mine has "U.S.A." on it as well. It's likely a year or two newer though.

Perhaps the current production cans have the same markings. I have no idea. I've not seen one. I'd be curious to know.

Edited: Did a quick web search. Looks like the markings don't appear on the later cans. I assume that this ended when the govt stopped buying them. I wonder how many of the originally marked cans are out there.
 
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