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Discussion Starter #1
I have the chance to buy a 1979 H&K MP5. It has the retractable stock. It's been used and shows it. Not a safe queen. It has a button you have to push to select full auto, and came from Pakistan I think?

The good part is this is a real machine gun, not a conversion from what I can tell.

Can anyone give me a ballpark figure for what its worth?

Thank you, Greg
 

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This may get you in the "ballpark"...

German Subguns

However, I saw a really nice double pushpin Mp5 for $31k earlier today...
Ultimately, it's worth whatever someones willing to pay for it! ymmv,g/l
 

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Assuming we are talking the good old USA and a transferable Tittle II firearm, then 99.995% of the transferable "real MP5s' are actually nicely done push pin conversions. However, if you found one of the less than a half dozen "real factory MP5s" (so the story goes on transferable "real" MP5s) and it might even possible be a pre scope mount model, then the value might be impressive and maybe near six figures ... but only if you have a buyer (most of which have posties anyway ;-).
 

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He said it came from Pakistan. That's not an HK MP5. Would love to see pics of this. Afaik, no paki MP5's were ever imported here. Minus the MKE's that just came over recently.
 

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He said it came from Pakistan. That's not an HK MP5. Would love to see pics of this. Afaik, no paki MP5's were ever imported here. Minus the MKE's that just came over recently.
I had a Post Sample POF (made in Pakistan) MP5 a few years ago. It worked just fine, but I sold it and moved down the road. It was imported by Pars Internation of Louisville, KY.
 

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I stand corrected. Regardless, that was a postie. Not a transferable. Technically there should not be any transferables as that would violate the GCA of '68.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm from Michigan. I have a FFL and SOT, I'll have pics of the gun soon, and hopefully some more documentation on it. The police dept I'm getting it from is running it through a background check to make sure everything is cool. As soon as I get serial number, picture and background done, I'm sure It will help determine value.

I was thinking it was going to be closer to $8,000, but that chart posted above puts it $10,000 more. How much does the shape of the gun determine the value? I don't think it would take but a couple thousand to make it like new...

Thanks everyone, I still have a lot to learn on these H&K's
 

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Discussion Starter #9
is there a certain name you have for the mp5's that have the button you need to push before you can move the selector to full auto?

(I thought that was what push pin meant, but after more studying, looks like I was wrong there)
 

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HK made a special trigger pack you had to depress a button before being able to move the selector lever to the full auto position. Can't remember what they called that model. If this is a post sample, I'd say it isn't worth much of anything. I've been told you can get used postie MP5's relatively cheap. And that's real HK's. If its a pre-sample, maybe $4,000-5000????
 

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is there a certain name you have for the mp5's that have the button you need to push before you can move the selector to full auto?

(I thought that was what push pin meant, but after more studying, looks like I was wrong there)
I think in 1990 there was an SEF/trigger group grip that locked out the FA position until a button was depressed. Required 2 hands. RTG had these for sale at one time sometime back and I believe they were referred to a police grip/trigger group on that site.
 

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I think in 1990 there was an SEF/trigger group grip that locked out the FA position until a button was depressed. Required 2 hands. RTG had these for sale at one time sometime back and I believe they were referred to a police grip/trigger group on that site.

In answer to

Is there a certain name you have for the mp5's that have the button you need to push before you can move the selector to full auto?
HK Germany marketed the MP5Z series for the West German police forces with a selector button on the right hand side that you had to push in to move the left hand side selector lever from E to F.

The Z stood for "Zusatzsicherung" or "special safety (device)".

I have seen a brown colored manual for this in German dated August 1986 with illustrations for the standard fixed and sliding stock versions (MP5A2Z and MP5A3Z), the K versions with and without diopter sights (MP5KZ and MP5KA1Z) and also the suppressed stocked version (MP5SD2Z). All are shown with scope mount blocks.

[On MP5s more generally, German versions will have HK and the Ulm proof house stamped on the top of the receiver but Turkish (MKE) and Pakistani (POF) will not. I have seen POF versions marked e.g. "MP5-A3" which I have never seen on a German model (which would simply be marked "MP5" for the standard A2 or A3 versions).

The outer hand grip is the same SEF type as the standard MP5 or K but the metal inner box which holds the internals has a special slot to accommodate the Z safety lever so you cannot just drop the Z lever into a standard SEF housing/grip and expect it to work as intended. (An ordinary selector will function fine in a Z grip).

HK then changed to a lockout safety selector lever that needed a special tool/key to move from standard operation to locking out full auto and back. That selector lever was designed to be dropped straight into any SEF grip.

These systems were perhaps a solution to an unnecessary problem since IMHO sound training ought to answer this type of issue. Purely political points like "not full auto" are answered by the FBI grip. (My 2c anyway)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Okay, got a little more info on the gun. It's a Springfield mp5 pre sample. Going to get pictures tomorrow.
According to atf, it just made the deadline to be considered a pre sample. Still not sure if that means it's a push pin conversion or not. I need to study up on what a push pin conversion is so I know what to look for.

Thanks for the help, Greg
 

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It is not a conversion if it is a pre-sample. It is a factory mg. The springfield guns were usually Greek or Turk, not POF. A presample contract gun is an excellent shooter worth about $1-2000 less than a comparable H&K gun, depending on condition.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
So the going rate is around $18,000... so I should be able to sell this one off for about $15K? Of course the shape its in will make a difference... mechanically its perfect, just rebuilt this year.

Now I need to build my post count up so I can post it up for sale :)
 

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So the going rate is around $18,000... so I should be able to sell this one off for about $15K? Of course the shape its in will make a difference... mechanically its perfect, just rebuilt this year.

Now I need to build my post count up so I can post it up for sale :)
If it's a pre-sample you can only sell it to FFL/SOT, so no I doubt you will be able to get anywhere close to the above number. TheGunShop said around 1-2K is the value. I'd say may be a little more as nice pre-sample HK have gone up in price too but it's going to be single digits K for a pre-sample.
 

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So the going rate is around $18,000... so I should be able to sell this one off for about $15K? Of course the shape its in will make a difference... mechanically its perfect, just rebuilt this year.

Now I need to build my post count up so I can post it up for sale :)
Have you actually viewed the ATF form that the PD received this gun on?

They may exist, but I have never seen a POF pre sample gun, only post samples. As for a value of a POF MP5, a pre sample should be worth $5K, give or take, and a post sample should be worth around $1k. HK Posties are worth parts kit value plus a couple bucks. But a POF gun would be discounted from there.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
If it's a pre-sample you can only sell it to FFL/SOT, so no I doubt you will be able to get anywhere close to the above number. TheGunShop said around 1-2K is the value. I'd say may be a little more as nice pre-sample HK have gone up in price too but it's going to be single digits K for a pre-sample.
It's a pre sample... when I first started this, I thought a pre sample would bring $8,000, but other charts I've looked at show $18,500 as of late. TheGunShop says it would be worth 1-2,000 less than a comparable H&K... so I'm thinking 15K should get it moving pretty easy...
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ok Thanks Dan, now I know where I stand on this gun...

ATF is sending paperwork, I don't think the P.D. knows where it is right now... Hopefully we'll get this figured out in a few months lol
 

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If it's a pre-sample you can only sell it to FFL/SOT, so no I doubt you will be able to get anywhere close to the above number. TheGunShop said around 1-2K is the value. I'd say may be a little more as nice pre-sample HK have gone up in price too but it's going to be single digits K for a pre-presample.
Presample is transferable, post sample is only available to ffl's , sot
 
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