Not Reliable In P7M8's Ranger 127gr +P+ RA9TA "T-series"

3361 Views 8 Replies 4 Participants Last post by chuck s, Mar 24, 2012

tktm

Discussion Starter · Mar 23, 2012

Finally got a chance to test the newest version of Winchester's 127gr +p+ RA9TA "T-series" in a P7M8. In the latest incarnation of this round, the hollow point is wider and shallower than previous version. Basically I was looking to see if the design changes improved reliability in P7M8's as compared to the older version where I encountered a Failure to Feed Jams approximately every two hundred rounds. see

http://www.hkpro.com/forum/hk-handg...3-have-differing-ammo-reliability-issues.html

I had hoped that the hollow point profile change might reduce the jamming likelihood against the sides of the barrel/chamber.
The test involved 2 different shooters and 2 different P7M8's (each shooter shot both guns).
The "T-series" ammo induced a previously unseen failures in both guns with both shooters.
The issues were as follows.
(1) Failure to feed with breech face crushing the side of the cartridge against the chamber (last round)
(2) Failure to lock back slide

Of the 150 rounds fired, only 1 magazines worth (8 rounds) ran without a stoppage.
In an effort to remedy the issue, the magazine springs were replaced at approximately the 80 round mark with new +10% wolf springs.
It was after the change over to the Wolff mag springs when we finally had a total of 1 magazines without a failure to feed.
The shooting was done over 3 different trips to the range.
Additionally we fired 124gr +p Ranger Q4362 with ZERO malfunctions, and also had ZERO malfunctions with a hot custom loaded 100gr +p+ round (much greater recoil than the other rounds fired).

It is possible that increasing the recoil spring weight might reduce the proclivity of the new 127 grain to fail in the manner we described. However it would seem that the current loading of the RA9TA "T-series" has a sweet spot for failure in P7M8's, hence it is probably best avoided.
We also noted a slight reduction in accuracy and precision in the new T-series as opposed to the original "Black Bullet" SXT loading of the round.

The photos below show the "T-series" fired at a silhouette from a standing position at 25 yards, and the last round FTF jam in the gun after new mag springs had been installed. With the new springs the jam location changed slightly, there was less crushing of the side wall of the cartridge.

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tktm

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 23, 2012

The older SXT rounds (black) didn't have these kinds of frequent jams (in my pistols), the T-series do.
The new 127's just seem dialed in to fail.
If I had to pick a round most likely to fail in the P7M8 it would be the new T-series 127gr +p+

The 100gr round I'm shooting clocks 1550-1600 fps in our P7M8's; its felt recoil is definitely greater that the 127gr, and that's what makes the situation interesting.

The mags are dated JB and IR. Is there a photo some where that shows the differences in the magazine feed lips post/prior to the change?
The pistons visually look and feel good; but where does one buy the piston field gauge?

Thanks
TKTM

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tktm

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 23, 2012

TGS said:
I'm confused; as I'm citing below, you stated that you were testing to see if RA9TA is more reliable than the older SXT 127gr +p+. That would make me think that the SXT wasn't reliable in your gun..

The Black SXT round was not reliable enough for me; with it I would have a failure to feed around once every two hundred rounds. The crenelated edges of the SXT hollow point would catch in the red circled areas shown in the photo below. With the new T-series version the failure rate jumped to 1 every 8 rounds.

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tktm

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 24, 2012

TGS said:
Gotcha, thanks for clarifying.

I don't understand why the edges you've circled would cause a problem. The P7 feeds almost directly into the chamber. I would think those areas shouldn't be anywhere near the opening of the JHP....have you cycled it by hand (slowly) to replicate it?

As for the piston gauge, I don't think it's a public market item. I believe only agency armorers were able to obtain them.

Thanks,

TGS

You can see from the dot on the feed ramp where the rounds were feeding; my guess is that the at a certain angle of rotation the tip of the bullet would deflect slightly left or right when it hit the ramp. The high impulse probably did not help matters any. The mouth of the HP would catch right in the sharp edge shown in the red circles. I did not replicate that failure by hand cycling, 1 in 200 is a lot of cycling.

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