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Slim down VP9 style striker style handgun with an initial 12 round capacity magazine. Slide slimmed down to hopefully P2000 width. The same with the frame.


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,22 416 and SP5 line in FDE
 

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VP9SK .380 or 9mm in tiffany blue with an engraved slide, hell everyone else makes one; Kimber, Taurus, SIG, Walther and Glock.

NO, WAIT!! I got it a .22 cal VP9SK to compete with the Glock G44, SIG Mosquito and the Walther P22
 

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SL8
 

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I hope that was not their big reveal. That sucks. I rather have another TG36 clone.
Don’t worry, that would be called the “small reveal.”


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@HKPRO can speak to this better than I can, but I believe the answer is because these are different production lines at the factory. You can't make SP5s on the VP line. So shutting down the VP lines doesn't mean you get more SP5s. Each of the production lines have limits (HK is not a big company) that can only pump out so much product. The demand for SP5s exceeds the production limits coupled with the delays associated with having to export and import all those guns.

SP5s are made on the MP5 line and the PDWs are made on the MP5K line. Only so many hours in a day...
Thank you both for a very clear and logical explanation. Here’s the thing I’d like you guys to explain.

It took HK about 30 years to bring SP5/SP5K back to the US market. Do you think they have a market research dept. capable to estimate the demand? Why couldn’t they produce about 20 000 pieces and drop them here instead of 2 000 and let them drip slowly to the hands of scalpers? We waited for a long time, could’ve waited for a little more. Bring enough of them so everyone can get one at MSRP or less. This would’ve also prevented the speculators from buying up several of them to resell. Also, why not directly communicate with the consumers instead of us guessing and feeding on gossip. For example: “Our production lines working at full capacity and will not stop until you all get your SP5’s. Estimated 5 000 to ship in Q2.” Would this be something counterproductive? Too big of a reveal?
 

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Thank you both for a very clear and logical explanation. Here’s the thing I’d like you guys to explain.

It took HK about 30 years to bring SP5/SP5K back to the US market. Do you think they have a market research dept. capable to estimate the demand? Why couldn’t they produce about 20 000 pieces and drop them here instead of 2 000 and let them drip slowly to the hands of scalpers? We waited for a long time, could’ve waited for a little more. Bring enough of them so everyone can get one at MSRP or less. This would’ve also prevented the speculators from buying several of them up to resell. Also, why not directly communicate with the consumers instead of us guessing and feeding on gossip. For example: “Our production lines working at full capacity and will not stop until you all get your SP5’s. Estimated 5 000 to ship in Q2.” Would this be something counterproductive? Too big of a reveal?
I'm just guessing here, but I would think that the marketing people at H&K are hesitant to approve any firearm that, in the space of a single day, might not meet import restrictions into the U.S. based upon the prevailing political climate, legislation, executive orders, judicial rulings, etc.
 

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I Bleed Urban Gray
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Discussion Starter · #91 ·
@soviet64 I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread you posted it in - the big reveal. So, at the risk of derailing things a bit, I'll give you my answer: I don't know. I don't work for HK. I will say, their production line makes the SP series of guns for customers all over the globe - not just the USA - so if the US got 2,000 that means they produced a bunch more than that for their other markets and they are not a big company.

I would speculate that no company is going to produce 20,000 guns in the hopes they will all sell. Also, sitting on 20,000 guns means inventory, insurance and warehouse space which - if you know anything about Lean production (AKA TPS) - is waste. Regardless, I don't think there anything nefarious in terms of what HK is doing.

Also, not to nitpick, but the SP89 was last sold in 1994 and the the SP5K was released in 2016 - so 22 years lag time during which 10 were covered by the Clinton AWB (for the US market) and the latter half of which HK was in a lot of financial trouble. Not making excuses for them, just saying I don't think they always read the market perfectly plus they are hamstrung by their size, German export laws and US import laws.

One last thought, I don't think they anticipated in the 90s and early 2000s that there would be demand for civi roller locks. Remember, their whole thing in that time was that the UMP was going to displace roller locks. Then the market transitioned to AR platforms which is what everyone wanted. It's only a small number of die hards who anyone would have predicted would still want a 1960s era gun (probably not a great read of the market, but who could have predicted the popularity of PCCs when short barreled 5.56/.300/6.8 rifles were the rage?)
 

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@soviet64 I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread you posted it in - the big reveal. So, at the risk of derailing things a bit, I'll give you my answer: I don't know. I don't work for HK. I will say, their production line makes the SP series of guns for customers all over the globe - not just the USA - so if the US got 2,000 that means they produced a bunch more than that for their other markets and they are not a big company.

I would speculate that no company is going to produce 20,000 guns in the hopes they will all sell. Also, sitting on 20,000 guns means inventory, insurance and warehouse space which - if you know anything about Lean production (AKA TPS) - is waste. Regardless, I don't think there anything nefarious in terms of what HK is doing.

Also, not to nitpick, but the SP89 was last sold in 1994 and the the SP5K was released in 2016 - so 22 years lag time during which 10 were covered by the Clinton AWB (for the US market) and the latter half of which HK was in a lot of financial trouble. Not making excuses for them, just saying I don't think they always read the market perfectly plus they are hamstrung by their size, German export laws and US import laws.

One last thought, I don't think they anticipated in the 90s and early 2000s that there would be demand for civi roller locks. Remember, their whole thing in that time was that the UMP was going to displace roller locks. Then the market transitioned to AR platforms which is what everyone wanted. It's only a small number of die hards who anyone would have predicted would still want a 1960s era gun (probably not a great read of the market, but who could have predicted the popularity of PCCs when short barreled 5.56/.300/6.8 rifles were the rage?)
I posted it here to address your and Tom’s answers I quoted. Sorry, didn’t mean to derail.

I appreciate your response but it’s still mostly your guesswork. As you mentioned, you don’t work for HK. So my last question stands - what’s wrong with HK giving us a bit of first hand information. Not of the secret Excalibur type projects(for obvious reasons), but at least some heads up on expected production/shipments of existing models and perhaps clarification on the “limited production” status. Or do you agree this company, while making superior products, is dysfunctional in other aspects?
 

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I Bleed Urban Gray
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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
what’s wrong with HK giving us a bit of first hand information.
Correct - my answers are speculation. I too get frustrated that HK doesn't communicate more, particularly through this forum. Why not make an occasional announcement here ahead of the broader public release? But I'm sure that HK's leadership weighs their priorities along with their capabilities and the external environment (market demand, legal environment, etc) and makes the most thoughtful and deliberate decisions they can. They are not here to please us. They are here to run a business and stay profitable.
 

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Correct - my answers are speculation. I too get frustrated that HK doesn't communicate more, particularly through this forum. Why not make an occasional announcement here ahead of the broader public release? But I'm sure that HK's leadership weighs their priorities along with their capabilities and the external environment (market demand, legal environment, etc) and makes the most thoughtful and deliberate decisions they can. They are not here to please us. They are here to run a business and stay profitable.
...they used to do press release stuff on the website, and that was a fair way of dropping info.

Forums are highly toxic environments; no mystery why HK (or anyone) does not directly want to weigh in here. Case in point, the CS was live here for a hot minute and then bounced. Everyone ridin' that social media wave now. Still dicey, but way easier to drop a pic and a caption and roll out than have a rolling conversation.

I think one of the smartest things I've seen other companies do is the "brand ambassador" thing. I'm not talking about a shill, but a legitimate, respectable user that can act as their mouthpiece at appropriate times. HK simply has not chosen to do this...or at least do it correctly.

"They are not here to please us. They are here to run a business and stay profitable."
Indeed, and there's a variety of ways to be "profitable" and a whole lotta ways to fail (as they're no stranger to red figures).
In the end, HK gonna HK and the market's gonna be a reflection of whatever is going on in the world. No point sittin' around bitchin' about what shoulda/coulda/woulda been.
 

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I think they will be doing what they did with the P7M8 police trades.
There will be a flood of potential G36s in various formats from Germany and other countries upgrading their rifles. They will import in all the trade-ins and sell them in the US market.
 

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@soviet64 I'm not sure what this has to do with the thread you posted it in - the big reveal. So, at the risk of derailing things a bit, I'll give you my answer: I don't know. I don't work for HK. I will say, their production line makes the SP series of guns for customers all over the globe - not just the USA - so if the US got 2,000 that means they produced a bunch more than that for their other markets and they are not a big company.

I would speculate that no company is going to produce 20,000 guns in the hopes they will all sell. Also, sitting on 20,000 guns means inventory, insurance and warehouse space which - if you know anything about Lean production (AKA TPS) - is waste. Regardless, I don't think there anything nefarious in terms of what HK is doing.

Also, not to nitpick, but the SP89 was last sold in 1994 and the the SP5K was released in 2016 - so 22 years lag time during which 10 were covered by the Clinton AWB (for the US market) and the latter half of which HK was in a lot of financial trouble. Not making excuses for them, just saying I don't think they always read the market perfectly plus they are hamstrung by their size, German export laws and US import laws.

One last thought, I don't think they anticipated in the 90s and early 2000s that there would be demand for civi roller locks. Remember, their whole thing in that time was that the UMP was going to displace roller locks. Then the market transitioned to AR platforms which is what everyone wanted. It's only a small number of die hards who anyone would have predicted would still want a 1960s era gun (probably not a great read of the market, but who could have predicted the popularity of PCCs when short barreled 5.56/.300/6.8 rifles were the rage?)
 

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How did we get to this on The Big Reveal thread? People HK is bringing something new to us. Hopefully something really cool 433 or MP7. Lets hope they produce enough product so the price is not sky high. I wish HK could find a way to keep these gun shops from raising their prices way above MSRP And putting them up for bid on Gunbroker. Maybe HK USA should sell directly to the public and just transfer the gun to a local dealer or I know there are several reputable dealers on HKPro that could handle all of their sales minus the pistols. I will not purchase a gun from one of these guys On Gunbroker.If HK has some sort of recourse not to sell to them for screwing all their loyal enthusiasts they should. $2000 above MSRP is really bad. There is a few places out there now that I refuse to do business with now because of the way they gouge their customers . FYI I can afford to buy one at today’s prices but I refuse to get ripped off. Not going to overpay for something.

Im just happy now that HK is trying to bring us the things we want to market. I look forward to spending my money on their products. When it comes to quality and reliability HK is the best.

HK thanks for all the super cool toys you have made for me Over the years. I look forward to whatever you bring to market. And if it’s not the MP 7 or the 433 , send the plans to HK USA in Georgia and let them make it.
 

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Single Stack VP9 SK with a threaded 16" barrel and ghost ring sights
 
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