P2000 V4.1 with "medium" trigger return spring

4393 Views 13 Replies 3 Participants Last post by Kyohte, Feb 18, 2017

Kyohte

Discussion Starter · Feb 17, 2017

I am in the process of finishing up converting a P2000 to V4.1, But the V4.1 kit was originally made for the P30. As such, I cannot find the V4 "medium weight" trigger spring for P2000. Is it possible to trim the P30 TRS to fit a P2000? I think it would work using a P30 trimmed TRS and a P30 trigger (since the P2000 trigger is notched on the wrong side). Has anyond done this?

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TooSixy

· #2 · Feb 17, 2017 (Edited)

I'd stick with the stock TRS + TBDS. If it's too light for your taste, use the V4.1 TBDS and Heavy LEM TRS.

The orientation of the legs on the P30 TRS is different from one for the other guns. Even if you trimmed the legs, they would still be on the wrong side, especially the one that rests on the frame (not the trigger itself). It will bugger up the frame.

See below pic for reference. Note the orientation of the legs in both springs. The left leg on the P2000 TRS (same spring for USP/HK45/P2000SK) coils down then curves up where as the left leg on the P30 TRS coils up then curves down.

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 17, 2017

P2000 V4.1 with "medium" trigger return spring

Got it. Thanks. I just remember that Todd Green used a P2000 spring in a P30, and was thinking it could go the other way as well.

I am also confused by the TBDS. Is the V4.1 TBDS required? Is it lighter or heavier than the V2 TBDS? The pistol is currently "VTGS".

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TooSixy

· #4 · Feb 17, 2017

There is a Heavy LEM TRS for the P30 series. This spring is not the same spring as the one for the other guns (USP/HK45/P2000). In one of his posts, Todd mentioned that the TRS was universal across all series. That is incorrect. The P30-series TRS is different.

The V4.1 TBDS is not required but if you are going to use it, you will also need the Heavy LEM TRS.

There are only 2 versions of the TBDS: one is the V4.1 version that comes with the V4.1 kit and the other is the standard, used in all other variants. So there is no "V2" TBDS.

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #5 · Feb 18, 2017 (Edited)

P2000 V4.1 with "medium" trigger return spring

So I installed the V4.1 parts including the TBDS and now the disconnector will not fully reset. Has this been encountered before?

This removes the second strike capability.

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TooSixy

· #6 · Feb 18, 2017

Disconnector or Trigger Bar? What TRS do you have in the pistol?

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #7 · Feb 18, 2017

TooSixy said:
Disconnector or Trigger Bar? What TRS do you have in the pistol?

The pistol is currently set up with V2 TRS, 12 lb HS, and light FPBS.

The trigger bar won't reset and the disconnector will not either when pressed down. When I put the original TBDS in the trigger bar reset, but it reset to the fully forward position instead of the 4.1 position.

The issue is slowly resolving itself by dry firing with the V4.1 TBDS.

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TooSixy

· #8 · Feb 18, 2017

The reduced pre-travel is achieved by the V4.1 longer catch (and hammer) and not by any other parts. I have installed at least 10 sets of V4.1, all with and without the V4.1 TBDS, and there never was an issue like you described.

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dreiHKs

· #9 · Feb 18, 2017

I briefly experienced a similar problem when I was trying the V4.1 kit (now removed). On the P2000, at least, it seemed that the TBDS plunger got jammed in its hole, perhaps because the trigger bar may have been out of position. At the time, I removed the parts, reassembled, and the problem went away. My non-expert opinion is that it was an assembly error.

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 18, 2017

TooSixy said:
The reduced pre-travel is achieved by the V4.1 longer catch (and hammer) and not by any other parts. I have installed at least 10 sets of V4.1, all with and without the V4.1 TBDS, and there never was an issue like you described.

Here is the "why" (correct me if I'm wrong, but this is how the V4.1 looks to work).

The Stronger V4.1 stops the trigger from over travel forward while being free of the hammer. The final forward trigger position in the 4.1 is a balance between the TBDS and the TRS. Too much TRS and the trigger overtravels it's connection to the V4.1 hammer and rests in the normal position. This is the case with the V2 TRS and normal TBDS with the V4.1 parts. It doesn't happen *every* time, but this issue was reported by at least one other person (either here or pistol forum, I don't remember). If you have a pistol set up like this, push forward on the trigger and it will likely easily move beyond the V4.1 resting position.

If one uses the opposite combination, the heavy TBDS overpowers the light TRS resulting in a failure to reset. This is why you mentioned to use the original TBDS in a "V1.1" set-up.

In *my case", it appears that the V4.1 TBDS is borderline too strong for my V2 Spring/12lb HS combination. There is a failure to reset for the double strike because the TBDS is is stopping the trigger before it can travel 100% foward, because the V4.1 does not alter the trigger position when the cocking piece is decocked and the connector is "inside" the V4.1 hammer.

I think I can solve this issue by using the 14lb hammer spring since the issue is with the "double action" reset.

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TooSixy

· #11 · Feb 18, 2017

You're overthinking it. It is just the longer catch and the notch on the hammer. There are many ways to configure a V4.1, but it all boils down to this: if you want to use a V4.1 TBDS, then you have to use the Heavy LEM TRS.

The longer V4.1 catch stops the V4.1 hammer at a position that is much farther than the stock hammer. This in turn prevents the Trigger Bar from resetting like it would with the stock parts. If you *think* the springs are doing all the V4.1 action, then just put back the original catch and hammer and see if you can achieve the same result.

Like I said, I have done many V4.1 setups and none had the issue you're experiencing.

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #12 · Feb 18, 2017

TooSixy said:
You're overthinking it. It is just the longer catch and the notch on the hammer. There are many ways to configure a V4.1, but it all boils down to this: if you want to use a V4.1 TBDS, then you have to use the Heavy LEM TRS.

The longer V4.1 catch stops the V4.1 hammer at a position that is much farther than the stock hammer. This in turn prevents the Trigger Bar from resetting like it would with the stock parts. If you *think* the springs are doing all the V4.1 action, then just put back the original catch and hammer and see if you can achieve the same result.

Like I said, I have done many V4.1 setups and none had the issue you're experiencing.

I did not mean the TDBS is the *only* part of the V4.1, just the part that is relevant to my issues. I understand how the rest of the parts work. The catch does not stop the trigger, it stops the hammer. The trigger is free to move further forward if not under spring pressure from the TBDS to stop it. The original TBDS does not provide this function and using it with the heavy LEM spring makes the trigger have the full take up, but the hammer does not begin to move until the V4.1 trigger position is reached.

The original parts work fine. The issue only occurs with the V4.1 parts. I may have to make a video explaining it.

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TooSixy

· #13 · Feb 18, 2017

The catch stops the hammer, which in turn, stops the Trigger Bar from resetting all the way forward like other LEM variants. Neither the TRS nor TBDS stop the trigger from reaching all the way forward. If you can nudge the trigger and make it reset all the way forward, then you are installing the parts incorrectly.

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Kyohte

Discussion Starter · #14 · Feb 18, 2017 (Edited)

P2000 V4.1 with "medium" trigger return spring

TooSixy said:
The catch stops the hammer, which in turn, stops the Trigger Bar from resetting all the way forward like other LEM variants. Neither the TRS nor TBDS stop the trigger from reaching all the way forward. If you can nudge the trigger and make it reset all the way forward, then you are installing the parts incorrectly.

What aspects could potentially go wrong for this?
I've done a few regular LEM installations and have never encountered anything like this. Aside from now lacking the double-strike capability if the trigger is released slowly during dry-fire, the pistol functions fine.

This is the problem that Vic40 ran into in the V2 to V1 to V4.1 thread. He solved it by going to V1.1 with the original TBDS. I don't like V1 triggers and would like this to work with the "TGS" LEM.

Edit: I think I found the problem. The Trigger bar detent was binding in the frame. Some polish and lube seem to have resolved it almost completely. This explains the two failures to reset I had when shooting it prior to the V4.1 parts (all factory installed parts at the time).

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